Where to go from here

I think I would get a teacher if:
1) I can afford it (that's a given)
2) They only teach me what I want to learn and possibly some background stuff to help me learn what I want.
3) I can use my own guitar for the lesson.
4) The teacher understands my philosophy towards music.

1) agreed, if you can't afford it you can't afford it. However, don't let a total lack of funds deter you. If you live near a reasonable music scene, particularly one associated with a University or two, you might be amazed how easy it is to find people willing to help you out so that they can get experience teaching -- or just because they love music as much as you do, or maybe you have some other talent that you can swap for lessons. I'm more than willing to trade snow shovelling for lessons, and I know alot of teachers who will take on dedicated, sincere students at very reduced rates.

2) No good teacher will only teach you want you want. Good teachers are good because they will teach you want you need. If a teacher will agree to only teach you want you want to learn, they probably aren't worth whatever money or labor you've traded for the lessons.

3) Almost always the case.

4) Your "philosophy" towards music is immaterial to the question of you being a good musician or not. More to the point, who cares? Your philosophy, whatever it is, will change, grow and shift as your life experiences dictate. A good teacher will challenge you to see music differently than you presently do precisely so that that growth can happen. If your teacher isn't asking you to do things musically that stretch your boundaries, again, they aren't worth your time.

Ditto on what Patzer said.

I remember my teacher saying "If I let kids come in here and just teach them whatever they want me too, I'd feel I was cheating them, and not doing my job."

What I mean by learning what I want is: Learning the music style I want. For example, I have no interest in learning camp fire songs. But if there was something I needed to know in order to play the music I like, then I'd learn it.

And philosophy is everything. It dictates what you learn, how you learn it and finally what you do with what you've learned. And since I've started playing guitar, I have seen music differently. Before I started playing, it was just about sounds and who had the best sounds. But now, I see it as more than that. It's energy, passion and attitude. It's a voice to scream with. To me, the path to being a better musician isn't about learning it from someone else. It's about focusing inward to project outwards through your instrument.

Thanks again for your help. You made me realize that I am the best teacher for me.

But now, I see it as more than that. It's energy, passion and attitude. It's a voice to scream with. To me, the path to being a better musician isn't about learning it from someone else. It's about focusing inward to project outwards through your instrument.

Unfortunately, that does sound rather silly coming from somebody who can only play a small handful of power chords. :(

Energy and passion are fine. But they don't go far without skills. So far, you apparently have a set of skills that could fit in a matchbox - without needing to remove the matches first - and yet you're lecturing us all on how to be better musicians! Considering the amount of time and effort that people have been putting in trying to help, that's not really the best way to go.

EVERYBODY learns from somebody else. We all stand on the shoulders of those who went before us. That includes all the "greats" who benefitted from those who went before them.

If it's not about learning from somebody else, why do you keep coming back here and trying to get people to give you what amounts to free lessons? :?

Sorry I wasted your time with my suggestions, but even more sorry that I wasted my own time. :wink:

Gents,

You have lead the horse to water, you can't make it drink.

And one more from the cliche drawer:

The person who represents himself has a fool for an attorney.

I think that one applies here too.

It's very important to recognize your own limits.

Thanks,

Nick

And philosophy is everything. It dictates what you learn, how you learn it and finally what you do with what you've learned. And since I've started playing guitar, I have seen music differently. Before I started playing, . . .

No, philosophy is not everything. Don't get me wrong, a well reasoned view of a subject is important. I have a graduate degree in philosophy. But what you think about music is utterly immaterial to your developing the skills necessary to be a good musician.

You want to debate the sociological and psychological impacts of a song, great. That's an awesome way to spend a few hours over a beer with some friends. But don't for a second think that what you, I or anyone else holds as a "philosophy" matters one iota when it comes to the question of musicianship. Developing the skills necessary to succeed doesn't have anything to do with how you think about music.

You claim to see music differently now than before you started playing. Now imagine how you might view music after you know how to actually play something in time with someone else and sound half-way decent. Likely as not you can't, but that's ok, it's still usefull to try. Now imagine how you might view music if you take the time to learn how that really cool shred metal lead line is actually the violin voicing from some aria.

OneWingedAngel, I've been around the block a few times, and I've met you before. The football player who thought he knew more than the coach, the recruit who thought he knew more than the drill seargant, the intern who thought she knew more than the CEO, and the music student who thought she knew more than the music teacher with 30 years of experience.

The universal to all those people I've met over the years is this -- they either figured out that actually learning was more important whatever ideals they felt they were upholding, or they failed to achieve their goals.

Part of it is mere pragmatics. If you want to be a musician, you'll have more opportunities to go further if you have friends and acquaintences who are musicians, and the easiest way to do that is to be involved in music and developing relationships. Something becoming a student can bring you in spades -- particularly to a teacher who has student shows and invites students to concerts to experience different music.

But mostly, your attitude is very representative of a group of people who by and large don't succeed in life. You're too busy fighting to prove you're right to stop and realize that you don't even know enough to have a valid opinion. That's not meant to be rude, it's just true. Someone with a doctorate in physics doesn't have to listen to the arguments of a teenager as to the plausability of some Star Trek physics to know the teenager is wrong.

I don't know why, but it just seems to be the case. It's ok to be a novice. It's ok to need guidance. It's ok to be a beginner. We all were at one time. No one achieves in a vacuum.

We've all met folks who talk the same way in different walks of life:

"My dream is to be a field biologist, I don't give a damn about chemistry!"
"My dream is to be a football player, I don't give a damn about lifting weights!"
"My dream is to be a lead guitarist, I don't give a damn about learning about music!"

By and large, such attitudes do more to stand in the way of dreams than to help people realize them.

People realize their goals in large part the same way a skyscrapper is built -- a solid foundation is laid and then countless hours of sweat and toil are put in to raise from that foundation to the clouds, in a very precise, step-wise fashion, following a plan.

Sure, a few people get lucky and just have success thrust upon them. But they aren't the majority of successfull people.

Very well put Kingpatzer, I need to hire you to speak to my 12 year old. Seems he knows pretty much everything already.. Nothing for dad to teach him.

Geoo

I could end up taking lessons and end up worse, which has happened before when I took keyboard lessons. I know you think I'm trying to avoid trying learning all that stuff, but just I prefer to take things by song. If I find a song that I want to learn that contains a technique or chord I don't know yet, I learn it. I recently found a song by Billy Talent that I want to play contains a couple barre chords, so I've started learning to play those.

I have a bad habit of questioning things too much. I can't have a teacher tell me "Open chords are the basis of all guitar playing" and believe him, even if they actually were. I would just ask, "If they are the basis to all guitar playing, how do I learn 4 songs without them?" and "How does learning them help me play those 4 songs better?" And no matter what the answer is, I won't believe him. It probably won't sink in until I find a song with open chords in them, learn the chords, then later on go back to those 4 songs and notice a difference in my playing. It's not unlike how I learned to draw actually. I know it's not smart, but it's how I learn.

I appreciate your advice and your persistance. But after you've given me all the advice, in the end, the decision is mine to make. And there is no right or wrong choice, just doing what's best for me. I can't expect anyone to agree with it, whether it be friends, family or people on here. But I do expect that whatever choice I make, that people respect that it is my choice.

I think this boils down to "I can't afford lessons so I'll rationalize the reasons I don't need them."

Angel, being a noob myself I prefer to noodle around too. However, generally when that happens I was learning a song by someone else, really like the sound of the riff or whatever, and the next thing I know I've spent an hour disecting it, changing it around, and making it my own. I equate it to a young child learning to speak. They learn words and how to use them from the people around them and what they are exposed to. It doesn't mean they develope their personality from the people around them, just the way language works. They then develope their own "style" of speech. Learning to play music is similar, IMO.

Jason

*sigh* You don't understand, so I give up.

But you do make a point. I have altered songs, I can't say that I spent an hour dissecting it. Sometimes I like the sound when I substitute one note/chord for another. But usually, I change it by accident then like the sound so I keep doing it. Though I think everyone has been at a point where they did something by accident and said "that was cool, how did I do that?"

I haven't done that with other musicians. I do have a friend that plays guitar but find it difficult to do what he does or integrate it into my playing because he's more of a blues player. It probably can be done though. Rock does have its roots in the blues after all.

I'm not quite sure why we are trying to convince OWA of anything. If that is the way that OWA prefers to learn then it doesnt help or hurt any of the rest of us. Only thing we can do is learn from his/her (sorry, not sure of gender) when there is a break through and assist with any questions that may come up.

If it works out for OWA then great.. if not who cares. Learning guitar isnt a life or death skill. Its just for the enjoyment. However you experience that enjoyment is up to you.

Good luck OWA. I have had some of those "How did I do that" moments recently.

Geoo

I'm not quite sure why we are trying to convince OWA of anything.

It's simple. 1) Voice of experience sometimes helps and 2) because that's what we do to help others. :!:

Sometimes the advice is rejected, sometimes it is not. Sometimes it is rejected for the right reasons and sometimes it isn't.

I like doing it because two people learn from it, them and me. Especially if I get corrected :lol:

We pass it on, then we move on. :idea:

I'm not quite sure why we are trying to convince OWA of anything.

'Cuase OWA came here and asked for our suggestions on what to do to achieve a dream of being a lead guitarist in a band.

So we're letting OWA know what we see it taking to achieve that goal reliably.

OWA can accept or reject the advice, but having the advice (and the reasoning behind it) here might help someone besides just OWA.

Here is what I often tell my students:

"imitate, emulate, inovate"

But at no time do I say to do these things without anyone else's help.

I'm not quite sure why we are trying to convince OWA of anything.

'Cuase OWA came here and asked for our suggestions on what to do to achieve a dream of being a lead guitarist in a band.

So we're letting OWA know what we see it taking to achieve that goal reliably.

OWA can accept or reject the advice, but having the advice (and the reasoning behind it) here might help someone besides just OWA.

First, just to be clear. I wasnt trying to be inconsiderate in my post. Hope I didnt come across that way. All I am saying is that I cant count on one hand how many times the same information has been repeated to OWA and she/he obviously doesnt want to take the suggestion, regardless what he/she asked for in the first place.

Sure it might be useful to someone else other than OWA but its been repeated over and over.

Anyways.. to take my own suggestion not to beat a dead horse.. I'll leave it as is. Repeat away

Geoo