Where to learn Theory for beginners

OK I SEE that why i asked this
does having a # or a b in the chord change the name like CEG IS C what about D F#A IS D ?at time of posting thee chords ok now i have the answer
i also read on another post there are 12 major and 12 minor keys what are they ?

i also read on another post there are 12 major and 12 minor keys what are they ?

I thought I'd posted that. Anyway, here it is again:

Key Minor Signature 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
C major A minor C D E F G A B
G major E minor # G A B C D E F#
D major B minor ## D E F# G A B C#
A major F# minor ### A B C# D E F# G#
E major C# minor #### E F# G# A B C# D#
B major G# minor ##### B C# D# E F# G# A#
F# major D# minor ###### F# G# A# B C# D# E#
F major D minor b F G A Bb C D E
Bb major G minor bb Bb C D Eb F G A
Eb major C minor bbb Eb F G Ab Bb C D
Ab major F minor bbbb Ab Bb C Db Eb F G
Db major Bb minor bbbbb Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb major Eb minor bbbbbb Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F

The first column is the major key, the second is the relative minor.

Thus E major and C# minor both share a key signature of 4 #.
does having a # or a b in the chord change the name like CEG IS C what about D F#A IS D

D-F-A is D minor because D-F is a minor 3rd (b3, 3 half steps)
D-F#-A is D major because D-F# is a major 3rd (4 half steps)

C-E-G is C major because there are 4 half steps from C to E.
C-Eb-G is C minor because C-Eb is only 3 half steps.

And so on.....

am i stupid or what yes you did i was using it already too thanks

hold on a sec thats only 13+1 14 i thought theres 24 12+12m
There are 12 major and 12 minor keys major or minor thread

am i stupid or what yes you did i was using it already too thanks

hold on a sec thats only 13+1 14 i thought theres 24 12+12m
There are 12 major and 12 minor keys major or minor thread

Where are you getting 13 + 1 from? Helgi's table shows thirteen major keys, but the table includes two that sound identical, F# and Gb. So there are only 12 different sounding majors. Same goes for minors - 12 different sounding minors.

Where are you getting 13 + 1 from? Helgi's table shows thirteen major keys, but the table includes two that sound identical, F# and Gb. So there are only 12 different sounding majors. Same goes for minors - 12 different sounding minors.
0h i have just noticed there are major and minor keys that C shares the same notes as Am . G the same as Em ect ect. nope that cant be right is there two TABLES here 1 for note and Signatures the other for scales?

there still is 13 notes in each colum whih is 26 - 1 because 1 for the two of these F# & Gb being the same

The table shows 13 majors keys (From C to Gb) and 13 minor keys (From A to Eb). Two of the major keys sound the identical (F#/Gb) and two minors also sound the same (D#/Eb) - so that leaves 24 "different sounding" keys. 12 major and 12 minor

Please excuse me for butting in here.

Frank, I hope this will help your understanding of what Fretsource is saying. Although you may already know this information.

Keep in mind that in order to understand intervals, I think you need to discuss them in relationship to the Chromatic scale (12 notes incrementing by half steps up to octave.) The Major Diatonic scale (which is what you were dealing with) is a subset of the chromatic scale, and increments in the following manner "w w h w w w h" (w=whole step, h=half step.)

The interval between two notes is defined by the number of half steps between them. Two notes a half step apart, like C and C#, define a minor second. Notes that are two half steps apart, like C and D, define a major second. This is also called a whole step. Expanding by half steps, the intervals are;
1) minor second
2) Major second
3) minor third
4) Major third
5) Perfect fourth
6) Tritone (if the interval seems to describe a 5th - DIM5
if the interval seems to describe a 4th - AUG4)
7) Perfect fifth
8) minor sixth
9) Major sixth
10) minor seventh
11) Major seventh
12) octave

These intervals apply to all scales, regardless of which key(note) you choose to be in. Oh, remember that the relative minor of a key uses the same scale as the major key, but starts on the 6th note of the major scale. (e.g. CMajor scale is C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C. The relative minor of C (the 6th note) is A, so the A minor scale is A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A. Same notes, but the intervals are in a different order because of where you begin. (This also begins to touch on MODEs, but I don't want to go there. :roll: )

I hope this helps you rather than confuse the issue. I've created for myself an excel spread sheet that makes it easy to visualize and understand these relationships. It shows the chromatic scale intervals, as well as the diatonic scale, and pentatonic scale intervals for all 12 keys. It would be easy enough to add more (say minor scales) if I wanted to, since all scales in western music are based on the chromatic intervals. I suppose I could also use it to define chords, since their basic structures are also predefined. In any case, it was a good exercise, and I recommend that anyone wanting to understand scale relationships and intervals do the same. I would offer you mine, but that would take all the fun (and learning) out of it for you.

Oh, one other thing on chords(triads).
a Major triad is define as having a Major third between 1 and 3, and a minor third between 3 and 5.
a minor triad is define as having a minor third between 1 and 3, and a Major third between 3 and 5.
a diminished triad consists of two minor thirds (1-3, 3-5).
an augmented triad consists of two Major thirds (1-3, 3-5).

Ken

again thanks when we added the extra note to get the 7th note were we touching on modes there?

sorry i didnt see te post thanks fretsource makes sense but wanted to check i know now what i didnt before

ken not sure what this is about sorry

The Major Diatonic scale (which is what you were dealing with) is a subset of the chromatic scale, and increments in the following manner "w w h w w w

again thanks when we added the extra note to get the 7th note were we touching on modes there?

No we weren't - We were dealing with chord extensions. We started with simple three note chords (triads) built from scale notes and we extended them by adding a fourth note (a third higher) from the same scale. That gaves a whole set of 'seventh chords'. We can extend each chord even further by adding yet another note. three scale degrees, up (a third), which gives a five note chord C E G B D. taken from the scale.

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C

We've added now the ninth note of the scale, (That's why I said write out two octaves or you'll run out of notes) so the chordwill be C major ninth - The word major here is still referring to the 7th - not the Root note C or the ninth
The actual chord types for each scale note will vary depending on the various intervals in the chord. And that's something you have to learn and commit to memory.

You can add yet another note to each ninth chord and get a whole set of eleventh chords and one more will give you a set of thirteenth chords - and that's as far as you can go. Every note in the scale has been used. Thirteenth is the highest chord number.

great now i feel i got that part down not to sure about what ken is trying to show me have we gone into this already not to sure about the terminology hes using

great now i feel i got that part down not to sure about what ken is trying to show me have we gone into this already not to sure about the terminology hes using
Maybe this will help. By subset, I mean some notes are left out. Because the chromatic scale has 12 notes, and the diatonic scale only has 8. However, the intervals are easier to understand (IMHO) if you see them in relation to the chromatic rather than diatonic scales.

In the key of "C" for example:
...Diatonic: C.......D.......E F......G.......A......B C
Chromatic: C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C

The dots indicate a "Whole" step, no dots are "Half" steps (sorry, I couldn't figure out how to align them another way.) Compare this to the list of intervals I gave you before.

Then again, I may just be confusing you. So maybe I'll just butt out now. Sorry for the interuption.

ah see there I am thinking that it was more complicatd than it was ,your showing me the name of the intervals if the note had that many intervals (1,2,3,-12),between them like in the c scale if we take C -G ITS A fifth note . just a different way to see it from the circle of fifths

however you dont name a chord according to the interval name do you

I am thinking about minor seventh there is 10 spaces beteen the 1st & 2nd note but i dont know of any chord that has that many intervals

Do we use that chart for naming a the chords ?

I am thinking about minor seventh there is 10 spaces beteen the 1st & 2nd note but i dont know of any chord that has that many intervals

When you say you don't know a chord with that many intervals, you mean you don't know of any chord that has an interval that big (10 semitones), right?. Well not between its first and second notes - but between its first and fourth notes - YES. All minor seventh and seventh chords have that - and all major sevenths have 11

Take an open E7 for example

e|---0--- Note: E (1)
B|---0--- Note: B (5)
G|---1--- Note: G# (3)
D|---0--- Note: D (b7)
A|---2--- Note: B (5)
E|---0--- Note: E (1)

This chord form (and the barre chords made from it), have two 1's, two 5ths, one 3rd and one b7th.

The dominant 7th is 10 semitones above the root, but there's a 5th in between.

thank you lads i got the gest of it at last.

if feel there is more i should look into please let me know again thanks your all invited over to party