Bookends - Guitar Noise Lessons

Re: Bookends

jimjam66 — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 17:58:42 +0000

Thanks David. It does help a lot. Unfortunately I'm the kind of guy who has to have these nuances explained; which you do very comprehensively and in language that I can understand!

I need to do lots more reading on thirds, so thanks for the pointer to the article. It was suggested in the lesson, but who does what they're told the first time? :D

Cheers,

David

Re: Bookends

David Hodge — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:17:45 +0000

You're not being thick. Thirds can be either major or minor, as you've pointed out. And since the song contains both major thirds (C and E, F and A) as well as minor ones (E and G, D and F), I simply lumped them all together under the category of "thirds."

As to what's "appropriate," well, that's a matter of the song in question. If the chords of a song are diatonic, that is they involve only notes from the key a song is in (so in the key of C, we're talking about C, D, E, F, G, A and B), then you'll run into very specific patterns. Using the key of C again as an example, the thirds based on the root, fourth and fifth positions will be major (C and E, F and A, G and B) while the thirds based on the other scale degrees will be minor (D and F, E and G, A and C, B and D).

But if a song borrows chords from outside of a key, say a D chord pops up in the middle of a song in the key of C (and D has an F# in it, which is not in the key of C), and if you wanted to play an inverted third to go along with that chord, then you'd have two choices: D and F#, which is major, and F# and A, which is minor. So it really depends on the chord progression of a song.

Getting along with thirds is pretty vital to guitarists, because the standard tuning of the guitar make playing thirds and inverted thirds very easy. Not to mention they sound so good. You might want to take a look at the lesson called The Power of Three for a good breakdown on how thirds are used to build chords.

Sorry for the confusion and I hope this helps.

Peace

Re: Bookends

jimjam66 — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:54:05 +0000

Maybe I'm just being thick, but I'm confused. (It's probably also fair to mention that I haven't touched a guitar for over a month until last night!) David mentions that what we have here are 'inverted thirds', which makes good sense - take a note, find the third, then play it in the next lower octave, right? So for example if we have a high E, we'd be looking for the G# immediately below it? Except we play the natural G ! So to my mind what we should be talking about is a 'minor inverted third' (or should that be an 'inverted minor third'?)

Does it matter? Is there some convention that thirds are thirds, whether major OR minor? In which case how will I ever learn which is appropriate at a particular point? Or should I give up the guitar right now and switch to the triangle or the cowbell? :)

Yours in confusion,

David

PS: Apart from that this is a wonderful lesson - my wife even recognised the song on about my third run-through! Amazing!

RE: Bookends

David Hodge — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:32:39 +0000

Totally my fault there for misreading the original question. Sorry about that.

In the measure of C, the notes in question are tied notes. That means you only play the first pair of notes but hold it for the total number of beats for both notes. Since the first set are half notes and the second set are eighth notes, you hold them for two-and-a-half beats.

Slurs are notated in the same way as ties, but the notes (as you pointed out) change. When you see two of the same notes tied together, that's a matter of timing. You might want to read up on that in any of the articles on music notation we've got over on the beginners' pages.

Hope this helps and sorry for the confusion.

Peace

RE: Bookends

theGrimm — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:56:25 +0000

But, in my usual rambling way, I did pretty much spell things out in the text:

Hope this helps.

Peace I guess I just got confused because you used different notation in the C-measure right before the outro, than to the notation in the Dm measure in the outro itself. But then I'm still confused...would you pull off and then hammer on in the C-measure, and hammer on and then pull off in the Dm measure?

Also, that C measure is in 4/4 time, but the Dm is in 3/8 time...

RE: Bookends

David Hodge — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:42:02 +0000

When I wrote this (ages ago it seems) I was still learning the ins and outs of the notation, so my apologies that it wasn't marked as well as it could have been.

But, in my usual rambling way, I did pretty much spell things out in the text:
This triplet has to replace one beat, so it has to be pretty quick (and that's why you should start slowly at first!). What we're going to do is a quick hammer on and pick off with the open E and G strings. Strike them once, then hammer on your fingers onto the F and A notes and then pull them of again. Try to pull them slightly down when you take them off. This will help sound the next set of open string notes. With practice, you will be able to do this triplet of notes with just one pluck of the strumming hand. Hope this helps.

Peace

RE: Bookends

theGrimm — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:32:20 +0000

I'm starting with this song, but I'm not getting that third C-measure, the one just before the outro. There is a symbol that looks like a hammer on top and bottom, joining two notes. Whassit mean? It looks the same in the tab. But since the notes don't change, it can't be a hammer on...can it?

Re: Beginners' Discussion #7 Â - Â Bookends

Violet S — Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:14:04 +0000

Here's a link to an article on inverted theirds and tenths and shows inverted tenths of G Major higher up the neck, I'm having a go at this too,

https://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=336

:)

Re: Beginners' Discussion #7 Â - Â Bookends

Rob L. — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:00:48 +0000

OK, I haven't had much time to spend on this lesson but I did get around to writing out the C and G major scales in thirds and inverted thirds. I see what you mean by using your fingering to differentiate between major and minor intervals.

The G major scale in thirds just played straight out up the G and B strings. For the C major scale I set the first 2 intervals on the A and D strings and played the rest up the D and G strings. Does this sound correct. It seems like there could be other ways depending on the sound and how much work you want your fingers to do. Is this correct?

This theory stuff might sink in if I take it in small doses. :)

Rob

Re: Beginners' Discussion #7 Â - Â Bookends

David Hodge — Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:16:24 +0000

Rob

Fretting hand is correct, sir! And congrats on getting Noteboat's book. I have it on good authority that it's a great read.

Glad to hear that it's going well and hope things continue to do so!

Peace