https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Thu, 04 Jun 2026 17:07:07 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-346531 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:36:14 +0000
Also, I kind of had a feeling that double sharps and double flat were the solutions to the scales that I thought didn't "work." But at this point I haven't gotten into using those so I wasn't sure.

Thanks again! Hopefully I can be over this hurdle now and make further progress in studying theory.]]> Guitar Players Discussion n1n9tean https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-346531 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-346518 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:19:20 +0000
You will find pieces written in C# or Cb at times, rather than the easier B and Db. That usually happens when there's a structural reason tied to the form... let's say you want to go from the major key to its tonic minor. If you start in the key of Db, you get :

Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb-C-Db

But the tonic minor works out to be:

Db-Eb-Fb-Gb-Ab-Bbb-Cb-Db

Because of that, pieces might use C# major and minor:

C#-D#-E#-F#-G#-A#-B#-C#
C#-D#-E-F#-G#-A-B-C#

That makes it clear how you're modulating. And C# isn't much harder to read than Db - but C#m is much easier to read than the enharmonic equivalent.

Modern publishers tend to use Db for the major when it's within a movement (I guess they figure we're smart enough to figure it out), but 150 years ago that wasn't true. And it's still not true if it's within a larger piece, and you want to show the structure - a cycle of preludes, with one in each major and minor key, will usually have one in C#major so you'll have one in a matching minor.]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-346518 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-346511 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:17:03 +0000 Soooooooooooooo,

Ab-Bb-C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab
G#-A#-B#-C#-D#-E#-Fx-G# [7 accidentals)
|
A#-B#-Cx-D#-E#-Fx-Gx-A# (not something you'd like to have for breakfast)
Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb
|
C#-D#-E#-F#-G#-A#-B#-C# (more accidentals; but hey, easier to remember, right?)
Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb-C-Db
|
D#-E#-Fx-G#-A#-B#-Cx-D#
Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb
|
F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-E#-F#
Gb-Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-F-Gb

Which is why some of these scales only exist in the laboratory.]]> Guitar Players Discussion greybeard https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-346511 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-38289 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:03:31 +0000
Now, this question has been bugging me for a while. Hopefully there is a simple answer.

When a scale starts with an accidental, you generally decide if you should use sharps or flats to name the degrees based on which would end up with fewer accidentals, correct? Okay.

But, I went through and wrote out all the scales that start with an accidental, both in their sharp AND flat alternations and what I (think) I have found out is that generally (at least for the Major Scale formula) you want to use flats to name each accidental degree of these scales which begin with accidentals.

Then, sometimes a scale doesn't even seem to work using sharps. This confuses me because in the book "Guitar Fretboard Workbook" the author seems to suggest that it should work both ways all the time.

Here, look at this (Now, this is just the Major Scale formula....haven't done this with the Minor):

Ab-Bb-C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab
G#-A#-B#-C#-D#-E#..uhh..(that doesn't even work!)
|
A#-B#-C#-D-E-F#-G#-A?(that doesn't seem to work either.)
Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb
|
C#-D#-E#-F#-G#-A#-B#-C# (more accidentals; but hey, easier to remember, right?)
Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb-C-Db
|
D#-E#......hmmm
Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb
|
F#-G#-A#-B-C#-D#-E#-F#
Gb-Ab-Bb-Cb-Db-Eb-F-Gb

So, am I insane? Am I thinking about this entirely the wrong way? Someone please enlighten me. In the books I have the authors always just casually brush over this specific topic only explaining the basic idea of it. :oops: :idea: :shock: :cry: :| :x :?]]> Guitar Players Discussion n1n9tean https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/a-question-about-scales-that-begin-with-accidentals/#post-38289