Boss Pedals, and the overall 'Effect'

Sometimes switching the position of an effect in your signal chain can make a world of difference.

Also, when you're fooling around with the eq settings, you might also, if you haven't already, flat the amp tone controls. If you're getting feedback, it might be because, for instance, you have the treble cranked on the amp, and then crank the hi frequencies on the eq, making everything over the top. Try it with the amp controls on 5 (some people say amp tone controls are 'flat' when they're at 0, which I'm thinking might be right), and then do your adjustments with the eq pedal.

What is the order of your pedals, from guitar to amp?

There isn't really an order at the moment.
I am just running my guitar to the pedal to the amp.
But yah, my settings on the amp are
Lead Pre Gain - 7
Low - 10
Mid - 0
High - 5
Resonance - 10
Presence - 10

I love the metal distortion sound as you can see :-)
But yah, I'm just testing these pedals and seeing if they'd go good with my rig.
But I'm thinking that I might not even need the equalizer if I have to turn down my settings on the amp as it is.
I wanted to BOOST the bass. because when I turn the amp up to about 3, which is pretty darned loud.
It has too much Hi's and not enough lows..which is odd because the settings are High - 5, Low - 10..
So...any advice or pointers would be G-R-E-A-T
thanks!

Marshall

I was just looking at the front panel picture on Peavey's site. That's a monster amp - congrats.

Anyhow, if you're still getting too much high end, you might want to reduce the presence a little. That resonance knob is pretty interesting. That plus the bass all the way up should give you lots of bottom end, but you're not getting it.

For this sound you're going for, are you using the Lead or the Rhythm channel? I see where there's 2 little buttons on the Rhythm channel - Bright and Crunch - and if you're using that channel, then maybe take the Bright off. With an amp with as many knobs and buttons as this one, if you're trying for one particular sound, it might be a good idea to basically turn everything off and put everything in a 'default' sort of position. Then start adding things to see what they actually do. Lots of times amp controls are interactive where turning one up will affect how another control works. If I were tweaking this amp, I'd deselect the Bright and Crunch settings, put both pre-gains on 5, roll all the tones (equalization) back to 5, and put the Presence and Resonance on zero.

Then, depending on what type of situation I'm tweaking for (live and loud, or bedroom soft), I'd start turning things up a little. Sometimes amp settings can sound great in a small quiet place like a bedroom, but can sound thin and weak in a louder situation like a gig or rehearsal. Lots of guys with Line 6 amps had (and have) that problem. In a bedroom, you can crank the gains up and get a nice crunchy thick sound, but as soon as you hit the stage or rehearsal hall and turn up the actual volume, it sounds horrid. They're two separate sorts of settings.

I'm assuming you're setting up for rehearsal. For louder playing it actually sounds better to lower the gain (or distortion, or in your case pre-gain) setting. Then when you crank up the master volume (which I *think* is the post-gain knobs) you get a fuller sound and not weak and thin and 'buzzy.' But start with the Bright and the Presence off first, push up the master volume and then start to sneak in the Treble and the Bass on the equalizer section. You can also push up the pre-gain a little too, but remember that the more distortion there is, the less obvious the changes in the other tone controls are.

Oh, this is also assuming you have your guitar's controls all the way open.

Just keep plucking a low note and see if it's what you're after. A half stack with an amp head like that should have plenty of available bottom end.

There could be other possibilities, like if you bought the rig used and maybe the speakers are out of phase, but that's probably not it. I'm thinking it's having the Presence and maybe the Bright on at the same time.

Try that and see how it goes.

Alright I give it shot.
You're right about the 'Bedroom soft' and the 'Live and Loud' thing.
This amp sounds AMAZING while practicing. It's like my dream sound. But when I turn the Volume (post gain) up! It sounds as you described, Weak..and as if there's almost no low end on the darned thing.
So you think if I take off a few things it'd sound better loud huh?
I will start testing your theory right now.
I have a question.
You know when you're at a concert of a heavy metal band..or just a local show of a rock band, and when you hear their amps, it's sounds awesome, in fact it sounds like my amp does in 'bedroom soft' volumes, except REALLY LOUD. How..on god's earth, do they do that?
I've been wandering that since I first got this monster. (my amp :twisted: )
I listen to Metallica cd's, Limp Bizkit cd's from live shows (with Wes Borland ofcourse) and I'm thinking...How does this guy get that awesome sound with his amp that loud..I just cant figure it out. Can you help me out here?

Thanks!
Marshall

Yes, take a few things off so you can reintroduce them a little at a time. If there's too many things with various settings - variables - then it makes it hard to zero in on what's causing the problem. Start with sort of a 'default' state and then tweak things up a little at a time.

The major acts have their amps, but they also have other stuff - other effects - to make their overall sound. It's not normally just a guitar through an amp. The main thing is, they're used to playing live and have, over the years, got their live stage settings down pat. Probably if you borrowed one of Metallica or LB's amps and took it home and played through it (lowering the volume of course) it would sound horrible. Even if you had the guy's guitar and everything. The reason is that they have things set for playing at high volumes. It's almost like regular cars and racing cars. They're basically the same, but they tweak them different for racing, you know?

And then there's the fact that major acts like the ones you mentioned have large sound-reinforcement PA systems that don't only handle the vocals, but pump out the mic'd or di'd sound from the amps. With some of those larger PA's, you could actually have a little 20 tube amp, mic it and get a huge sound. But you still have to have a good sound to begin with and like I said, these guys basically tweak their amp settings while they're rehearsing or doing sound-check - at concert volume.

So when you're doing your tweaking maybe you could do it at the rehearsal studio or if you have the chance, rent a rehearsal room for yourself just so you can work on your sound. Turn everything flat or to Zero, put some earplugs in, and start to play, adjusting as you go. You'll probably come out with settings that sound almost crystal clear when you take your amp back home and play it in your bedroom, but at the higher volume is just what you want.

Marshallsw:
Just to help clarify things a little bit. A typical setup at a metallica concert would look a little something like this. :) I know this doesnt help you solve your problem but it's interesting none the less :)

Its a large image so click
here to download

That picture doesn't show up for me..
Just says 'Page can't be displayed'
Even after I press refresh like 20 times .. :cry:

I myself found that it sometimes is far more efficient to lower freqs instead of raising others. So if the highs are overwhelming the lows, don't raise the lows but lower the highs, and maybe increase master volume to compensate minor volume loss. Also experiment with placing it before and after the pre-amp. Espescially if you boost frequencies before the pre-amp it is very easy to totally mess-up your sound.

Finally, use the EQ for subtle changes. The basic sound from the amp should be good, and the EQ should then make it even better. If you have to use very wild EQ settings on the Boss unit something is definitely not correctly setup on the amp itself. So remove all effect boxes, set the peavey up, add the EQ, polish it up. Then use any other pedals and use the internal EQ on them to have them fit in well, and if need be *slightly* change the Boss EQ to accomedate to the new FX units.

I figure that the actual boost will come from the Lead Channel..
There's a Rythm Channel, then a Lead channel.
You can set the rythm channel to be just good ole rythm sounding distortion, but take the edge out with the crunch and Bright Switch.
The lead channel you can go all out on.
You guys are telling me to take out EQ from the amp to use the Boss GE-7 Equalizer..
I don't want for the pedal to just work without screwing my sound over, I want to boost my lows and high's even further then they already are.
WHICH...The Boss GE-7 isn't allowing me to do.
Without screwing the sound up ofcourse.
So I could just turn my rythm channel into a distortion/power chord/blah blah blah channel, and set my lead channel up for solos...BUT..where can I get my clean channel in at?

I think Arjen is basically saying to get a good amp sound *first* and then add the pedal effects, and to do that, "lower freqs instead of raising others. So if the highs are overwhelming the lows, don't raise the lows but lower the highs"

Now as far as your clean channel, that would depend on what sort of music you're going to be doing and from what you've listed, the clean sounds might have a little crunch and distortion to them anyhow. If you want a really clear, clean rhythm channel and a distored overdriven lead channel, then set them up that way. For your rhythm channel, put the pre-gain on zero and the post-gain on whatever loudness you want. It should come out nice and clear. Then, like you said, make the Lead channel as distorted and overdriven as you want.

And this would be even before you add your graphic eq pedal and compresser. Start with a good amp sound with no effects and then work from there.

Now if you need 3 different sounding channels, Clean, Crunchy and Distorted, then you could add some sort of distortion/overdrive pedal in your signal chain. Or get a 3 channel amp, but I don't think you'll need that. But with a distortion/overdrive pedal, you could set the Rhythm channel for totally clean and use that for certain things, then set the Lead channel for slightly dirty so you can play rockish rhythms with it. Then when you want a lead sound, you can just stomp on your distortion/overdrive pedal and get the sound you want.

But like we're saying, start by getting a good amp-sound first, then you can add stuff to it as you go.

Right.
See, let me start all over.
I'm happy with my clean sound which is my Rythm Channel, and I'm VERY happy with my Lead channel.
As you said, get a good amp sound first. Well, I have my ideal distortion on my lead channel. I mean..the distortion I'm getting from this monster is AWESOME, I love it. But the solo sound...just isn't my cup of tea. For example, I could play nu-metal songs alllll day..and be VERY happy with the sound, but say I go back to some Metallica songs, I can get that heavy distortion sound they have, but when I go to play a solo..it's just...not what i want.
In a nutshell, I want to have Bright, glassy-toned clean sounds, Heavy distortion with lots and lots of low and high end. And then..I want a toneful, mellowy sounding solo sound, for example, Eric Johnson. He has one of the best solo sounds i've heard, so does Eddy Vanhalen, Jimmy Page, John Petrucci and so on.
I can't stand just flipping over to the Lead channel and busting out a solo with no mids and too much bass.
WHICH is why i got the equalizer. I was going to hook it up through my FX Loop, and set it on top of my amp, and just hit the Effects button on my foot switch.
So maybe...if I just set up my Lead channel to have the sound I want for my solos, then set the GE-7 up to have my rythm heavy metal distortion sounds...THEN I'd be set.
Anyway.. I have four pedals an amp, and 2 guitars.
Pedals
Boss GE-7 Equalizer
Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer
Boss AC-2 Acoustic Simulator
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor

Amp
Peavey 5150 Half stack

Guitars
Peavey Preditor Plus, with 2 stock single coil pickups and an EMG-85 humbucking bridge pickup.
Ibanez 7-string, with 2 stock Dimarzzio humbuckers.

I really need to get a new guitar...hehehe...I like the Peavey for solos because of the low action and sustain, and I like the 7-string for that extra kick in the metal distortion sound.

hmmmmmmmmmm....I guess I just need to do as you said..and tweak..

Yup, that's exactly what I mean. An EQ pedal is used to fine-tune the sound, not really to widen it's frequency range. You can't add an EQ pedal to double the bass or things like that. As for using three sounds, I would go with the solution above as well:

1st channel=clean
2nd channel=crunchu
2nd channel+booster pedal (using the EQ on the booster!)=lead.

This way you could push the gain slightly further (which would make it too muddy for tight metal rhythm), and raise the mids/lower the bass using the EQ on the booster.

I think the biggest problem is trying to raise freqs that you dialed down on the amp. getting the bass down shouldn't be too hard, but raising the mids on a scooped amp might not really work. What might work better is raising the mids and using the GE7 to lower the mids during rhytm work, and de-activate the GE7 and activate the booster for solo's. That way you'll still be scooped during rhythm, wihtout losing the mids when it's time to cut through with a solo.

Okay.

That was one thing I saw on the front panel of the amp that was a little different - there's two channels, but only one set of tone controls. The manual says both channels share the tone controls and that's sort of the problem: you can't really set each one different. Well, maybe it's not a problem for some folk who play in a certain style. But now that you've made it clearer what you're after, I'm thinking that one way to get around what the amp has is to get maybe a BOSS MetalZone or similar type pedal. I'm only using the MetalZone as an example because I've used one, but there's lots of other good ones out there.

The thing about the MT-2 is that it has its own eq built in and you can dial in a real mid-scooped sound just from it. Then you could set your Rhythm and Lead channels the way you like, and when you want the mid-scooped rhythm sound, select your clean Rhythm channel and punch in the MT-2. It would be like having 3 separate channels. Then for the solos, click the MT-2 off, switch channels and have your Lead sound come out the way you want.

That might be one way of doing it.

Yah, when you set the Power amp EQ's on this amp, it goes for Rythm and Lead.
Which I think Eddy thought was a mistake, SO...he came out with the Peavey 5150 II head, which I think the only difference is, it has different tubes and 2 different Power Amp EQ's (Resonance and Presence) for Lead and Rythm.
But..I just spent $1,500.00 on this amp. I'm not EVEN about to spend another grand on the new head..
And I have only had this amp for a month and a half..I just need to tweak it to my exact likes. like you all said