https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Thu, 04 Jun 2026 23:55:23 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/#post-198813 Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:39:48 +0000 I've been playing guitar writing songs and playing in bands for about twenty years.I've never had any training or studied music at all.I can play the guitar and write a and IMHO write a fairly good tune.However I have recently started to actually learn more about what I am actually doing.For example why some of my songs are better than others I've written eg.chord progressions,harmonies,molodies etc.
Before I started learning I would just sit down with my guitar and just grind away until I came up with a good riff or melody that I liked.Building a song from that initial riff or melody was just trial and error.The reason successful professional songwriters keep churning out hit after hit is because they know what ingredients are needed to make a great song.Celine Dions greatest hits might not be to everones taste but you can be sure that every songwriter on one of her albums has a pool and a couple of ferrari's on the drive.Thats not to say you don't need passion and flair to write a "good" song its just that with more knoledge that good song could be a "Great" song.eg. listen to U2's early records and compare them to their last album.The difference in the quality of songs is immense.As they were not all trained musicians it has taken them 25 years to get to that point.
What I am trying to say is that IMO the more you can learn about every aspect of music the better you will be for it.
Sorry I got a bit carried away!
Cheers
Booblehat.

my Band
http://www.myspace.com/indy900]]> Guitar Players Discussion bobblehat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/#post-198813 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/#post-198809 Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:03:19 +0000
For a specific major, the requirements would include other stuff. Arranging was required of composition majors, fundamentals of each instrument family for music ed majors, foreign language pronunciation for voice majors, etc.

We didn't have 'music tech' back then... but I'll bet a lot of programs now require something like MIDI programming or computer notation software. Other labels have changed over time; few catalogs now list counterpoint - but it'll still be taught, probably as 'Music Theory III' or integrated with a two-year harmony track.

Can you learn the fundamentals of all this stuff on your own? Maybe, if you're dedicated. Can you rival what you'd learn at Berklee? Probably not.

The college music experience isn't just the textbook learning. A large part is the ensembles a school offers, and the musical experiences you gain. Can you get some of that experience by playing with a band? Yes. Will your band do music that none of you have ever heard of, cutting edge compositions by Ligeti, Stockhausen, etc? Not possible - you've never heard of it! :)

Another part of the experience is making connections with other students. John Petrucci dropped out of Berklee - after forming Dream Theater with fellow students. I'm sure you could draw up a long list of folks who succeeded after leaving Berklee early (Mayer, Petruccci, Vai, Donald Fagin, etc.) The list of folks who succeeded after graduating from Berklee will be just as long. Folks from either list often work with people they met in school.

The third advantage of a school is something you can't replicate on your own: feedback. Sure, you can use Finale, Sibelius, Igor, or some other program to create a composition and listen to a playback - but will it suggest a different inversion of voices? Will it point out the flute trill that's especially difficult to finger, or discuss the change in tone your clarinet piece will produce because of crossing ranges?

From your post, I'm guessing your goals lie either in songwriting or in composing. I'm not aware of any schools that turn out consistently good songwriters; songwriting isn't really a music major. If you want to be a songwriter, write songs, join a songwriting organization, and study on your own.

If you want to be a composer, go to school. You'll be exposed to techniques that you'll be able to use. Yes, you could get them from books - but books will not critique your compositions, or arrange for a student ensemble to perform your promising ones.

If you're particularly interested in film scoring, there are two schools that have programs dedicated to scoring and synchronization skills: Berklee and USC. Because of proximity to the industry, and the networking opportunities available, USC is probably the better choice.]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/#post-198809 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/#post-20421 Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:31:57 +0000 Here's the deal- I am just trying to become an accomplished musician and I'm looking for the right resources to do that. With that said, I am asking for your advice/thoughts.
http://www.berklee.edu/core/default.html
According to the link above, it seems like these four core elements- "Arranging, Harmony, Music technology, Ear training"- constitute the fundamentals of musicianship.

Have you guys mastered all this stuff? I guess it perhaps depends on how serious you are and whether or not you're looking to pursue music as a career. Well I am.
Anyway, My main interest is in becoming an accomplished songwriter and I have bought songwriting books(on lyrics, melody, harmony) which seem quite informative and almost sufficient. I have a pretty good idea on how songwriting works and I feel I can do that on my own.

Now here's the tricky part. One piece of advice I've gotten from a songwriter was that, songwriting itself doesn't require all that much of four elements mentioned above- "Arranging, Harmony, Music technology, Ear training."
Here's my take on the matter. DO REFUTE and correct me if I'm wrong on anything. (liberate me from ignorance)

Harmony semes to be part of basic theory, and it seems like most books on songwriting explain harmony pretty well cuz its obviously a fundamental part of songwriting. I THINK I got this covered with the songwriting books I have.

Ear training, I THINK, seems like something that can be learnt on my own with a product like earmaster pro. And there's a zillion products on that so.

Music tech/production(recording, midi, engineering)- what is this necessary for? making demo recordings to send out to record companies?
who is this mainly relevant to? Does this concern performing songwriters?
SHould I learn this? And if so how do i go about it? EH-my laptop is pretty good but I wonder if it can handle all this.

Arranging- when you play with a band, I THINK most rock musicians seem to arrange by ear rather than on sheet. Am i mistaken? I heard that for stuff like film scoring, arranging is necessary. Anyways, nevertheless, this seems like a useful skill and I'm interested in learning this. How do I learn this?

P.S. My opinion is that nowadays with a good books/resouces, one can learn A LOT by him/herself using the internet. Hence the existence of so many of us self taught guitarists/songwriters.(owing to such nice online guitar communities like this) It's actually making me wonder whether it is absolutely essential for musicians like us to attend an official "music school" for our pursuits. I'm thinking about going to berklee college but it's so pricey. Did john mayer drop out b/c he's a genius who didnt need any of that formal schooling? Is he like the exception who didnt need that? Brilliant songwriters like Bono, jon bon jovi, johnny rzeznik- it seems like they didn't attend any formal music schools. Some thoughts on this matter please.

Anyway about the four core elements mentioned above, do you fellas know any good books available on amazon, or any resources/products available online for this stuff? Any recommendations? And if you believe that the aid of an instructor is necessary for certain parts, then feel free to elaborate on that matter as well.]]> Guitar Players Discussion dennett340 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/dear-experts-im-seeking-advice-on-musicianship/#post-20421