https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Thu, 04 Jun 2026 07:04:43 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387939 Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:11:08 +0000 to 1/4, 1/6, 32, 64 und 128 quintad
und s minor 5'th
from the root
Diminished minor first, first, minor second or slide
I think more so than what you think.

Nothing I listen is into 3/8 time.
44444444444 442

https://www.opendrive.com/file/NDBfNDkyMjU5N19vWDZUdg]]> Guitar Players Discussion Nick6 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387939 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387934 Mon, 17 Jul 2017 03:06:59 +0000 Guitar Players Discussion chroma https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387934 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387932 Sun, 16 Jul 2017 14:08:18 +0000
The meter change right before that marks the beat in the tempo mark, even though a measure of 2/2 is a metric unit, just like 3/8 and 3/4. http://i.imgur.com/JndSQfR.png]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387932 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387931 Sun, 16 Jul 2017 09:09:55 +0000
Maybe this complex way ensures smoother transitions?....or easier to slide into?

I think that an eighth=x would suffice for eighth-note meters, quarter for quarter, etc......]]> Guitar Players Discussion chroma https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387931 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387929 Sat, 15 Jul 2017 11:53:29 +0000 http://imgur.com/a/281Zn]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/paged/2/#post-387929 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387928 Sat, 15 Jul 2017 09:38:28 +0000
Your link goes to a 'nothing here' page.

Incidentally, I can forego percussion pieces. Most of the instruments are all attack. I like Xenakis' normal ensemble stuff, though.

Anyways, we're getting way off from helping the OP, I think......unless he's really taking all this in.]]> Guitar Players Discussion chroma https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387928 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387926 Sat, 15 Jul 2017 05:56:10 +0000
http://tomserb.imgur.com/all/?third_party=1

When the time signature changes from 2/2 to 3/4 there's an indication that quarter note equals quarter note. So a half beat of 2/2 becomes a full beat in 3/4. If you are counting beats, your tempo changes, because you go from counting 108 half note beats per minute to counting 216 quarter note beats per minute.

Alternatively, if you are counting by metric units (which I think is what you mean by "beat pulses" - metric units are groups of two or three beats that begin with an accented beat), your tempo still changes, because you go from counting 108 two-beat units per minute to counting 72 three-beat units per minute.

At that particular change, quarter note equals quarter note, so they've been passing by at 216 per minute for that entire section. But each of those quarter notes before the meter change represented 1/2 of a beat (or 1/4 of a metric unit), and after the change they represent 1 beat (or 1/3 of a metric unit). And that essentially sums up my argument: notes are not the same as beats, and if a meter change uses a different note for the beat, keeping a note at the same time value must result in a tempo change.

For what it's worth, I think I finally understand what you mean by "beat pulses". If you're counting metric units and a change goes from 4/4 to 2/2 with quarter note = quarter note, you are correct that the amount of time a metric unit takes remains the same. But you've gone from measures having two metric units to measures having one, so your downbeats are closer together. I can see how you might count them the same way... and I can also see how it can get you into trouble in counting more challenging music. Some of Xanakis' percussion pieces spring to mind.

I'm curious where you picked up that term, "beat pulses". I've been teaching music for almost 40 years now, and I've frequently heard the terms "pulse", "pulse of the beat", or even "tactus" but they have always been synonymous with "beat". The term I've always used (and heard used in both my undergrad and graduate studies) for your "beat pulse" is "metric unit", or more rarely, "pulse group".]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387926 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387924 Sat, 15 Jul 2017 00:30:54 +0000
https://youtu.be/JEY9lmCZbIc?t=11s

http://i.imgur.com/mueaWFp.png

Notice he has two markings. The latter is how I think of things, but his 1/3 of that preceeding it equates to measure length, suggesting to me a hinting at the rhythmic structure. I've never seen the sense of counting beats when the pulse pervades.

In any case, this brings us back to the 'feeling of music', and if one doesn't have that, I question their intent in exploring music.]]> Guitar Players Discussion chroma https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387924 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387919 Fri, 14 Jul 2017 06:27:42 +0000 are the pulse.

You, on the other hand, are confusing notes with beats. Tempo is measured in beats per minute, not in notes per minute.

There are four quarter notes in a measure of 4/4, which represent four beats. There are also four quarter notes in a measure of 2/2, but those four quarter notes represent just two beats, because the unit of a beat in 2/2 is a half note.

When you change a time signature in the middle of a piece, the beat remains the same. If you change from 4/4 to 2/2, your quarter notes are now being played twice as fast but your tempo has not changed! What has changed is the note that is being used to indicate a one beat sound.

2/2 is often referred to as "cut time" because it sounds twice as fast as 4/4 in relation to the quarter note - but it isn't twice as fast. The beats are still exactly the same. What has changed is how long a note lasts. Notes are representations of relative amounts of time, and ANY note can serve as the unit of the beat.

When a composer chooses to change time signatures and keep the note values the same, the tempo IS changed. This is usually indicated in standard notation by parentheses above the first measure of the new time signature which contain two notes separated by an equal sign (quarter note = quarter note). If you are in 4/4 at 120 beats per minute, and you change to 2/2 with the indication that quarter notes equal quarter notes, you are now playing at 60 beats per minute, because each quarter note is one half of a beat in 2/2.

Your last statement, that different meters are written at different tempos is rather confusing. I believe you're trying to express the idea of tempo giusto (Italian for "right time"). A piece written in 3/8 time is usually conducted faster than a piece written in 3/4, even if the two have the same tempo term, such as "Allegro". But using 3/8 will NOT mean you'll play twice as fast - it means that within the range of a tempo term like Allegro (roughly 120-168 beats per minute) the 3/8 piece will be counted a little bit faster within that range, a 3/4 piece will be counted a little slower, and a 3/2 piece a bit slower still. But they'll all be within the broad general range of an Allegro feeling. If a metronome mark is used instead of a tempo term, 3/8 and 3/4 will be identical in tempo, because they each have three beats in a measure, and the time a beat lasts is fixed by the metronome mark.]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387919 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387917 Fri, 14 Jul 2017 00:23:39 +0000

I think you're confusing beats (versus pulse) with beat value. There are 4 quarter notes in 2/2 and 4/4. The constant is the tempo (unless it's Elliot Carter or the like.....), so with either if quarter note=x, they take the same amount of time. Their feel may be different, that depends on the context. If the half note is the beat value, then yes it's half the length, but then the tempo has changed. The rate may be the same, but the note value changed. It's not the same tempo. This is why different meters are written at different tempo, to suit the context. The larger the value, the slower they tend to be.]]> Guitar Players Discussion chroma https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/still-struggling-with-time-signatures-mostly-detecting-2-4/#post-387917