https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Thu, 04 Jun 2026 10:15:14 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372137 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:29:34 +0000
Funny...but true...about being able to get away with one different note in a chord as it gets repositioned elsewhere in songwriting. If you are playing a standard...you can hear them. But if you are writing...you always tie in a harmony note to that oddball note on another instrument. I like doing that with a driven-high bass guitar note.

Gotta love this instrument!

Cat]]> Guitar Players Discussion Cat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372137 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372136 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 13:49:36 +0000
1. It fits the key. A Dm chord has the notes D-F-A; all of those are in the key of C. If you're writing in C, which has no sharps or flats, Dm works, but D (D-F#-A) doesn't.

2. It fits a modulation. If you're in C, you might follow a C chord with a Cm - you've just used C as a "pivot", and now you're in some key that has an Eb note. Rule of thumb for songwriting: anytime you change only ONE note (C-E-G -> C-Eb-G) it'll sound OK - that's the basic logic behind chord substitutions.

3. It fits into a chain. As David showed, each key has some 'native' minor chords. If you're in C and you play Am-Dm-Em, you can continue with another minor chord - maybe you use Fm. Although you're changing keys, you've set it up by establishing minor sounds.

The theory reasons behind #2 and #3 will vary depending on exactly what you do, but in a nutshell it all boils down to something a composition teacher once told me: when writing, change ONE thing at a time. With #3, you're changing key, but keeping a minor feeling; with #2 you're changing a key, but keeping the root the same. For best effect, you'll want to have other things established as well that stay the same on both sides of the change... like the same rhythm, or the same note in the vocal melody.

There are a couple other things that can help figuring out what to do next. I wrote a lesson a few years back that covered some of the reverse engineering that David mentioned: https://www.guitarnoise.com/lesson/untangling-chord-progressions/. But something to keep in mind is what Cat's getting at - theory follows usage. If you find something you like, keep doing it - either the theory already exists and you just don't know it yet (which isn't essential to use it), or you've broken the mold... and theory will catch up to you later.]]> Guitar Players Discussion NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372136 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372133 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:10:04 +0000
As illiterate as I am, I've always considered these modals as "passing chords"...which are pretty horrible unless they come from somewhere and end up going somewhere. I use them all the time, and if you write for a living, they are the better part of your songcraft. This is where your style comes from. Maybe like a suspended 4th, as an example...without the resolve to the root of the chord. If you throw those into everything you write...it's how you will be known.

Hey, David...Parker and other enquiring minds wanna know!

Cat]]> Guitar Players Discussion Cat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372133 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372126 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:47:59 +0000
I've got a subsequent question, but I'll see if I can't find the answer in the article or one of the linked articles first. Not even quite sure how to ask the question. It involves why a chord is a minor chord at certain points.]]> Guitar Players Discussion rparker https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372126 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372119 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 04:01:31 +0000
That looks like a typo on my part. You want to think of these in generic terms
On the "sometimes" column, it should look like this for C:

Am
F or Am
F
C or Dm
F or Am
Em or F

It's important to realize, especially if you're reverse engineering, that all this can be reduced to "generic" terms, which describe each chord in Roman numerals (capitals for majors, lower case for minors). In the key of C:

C = I
Dm = ii
Em = iii
F = IV
G = V
Am = vi

In the key of G, you have the following:

G = I
Am = ii
Bm = iii
C = IV
D = V
Em = vi

So if you use this for whatever key you're in, the "Sometimes" column looks like this:

vi
IV or vi
IV
I or ii
IV or VI
iii or IV

I hope this helps. Sorry about the typo - I'll get hold of Paul once he's done with all the New Year Celebrations going on and see about getting that corrected.

Peace]]> Guitar Players Discussion David Hodge https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/paged/2/#post-372119 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372114 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 01:47:08 +0000
https://www.guitarnoise.com/lessons/a-before-e/ RE: the Progressions in C Major or G Major Charts
David, as part of my reverse engineering efforts to learn what's happening behind the scenes, I was going to make charts for A though G# using your formula two charts that you've created already as reference. To that end, I have a question. the third column over towards the right labeled "Sometimes" has a minor chord as an option for the Am row on the G chart and a major chord for the C chart. How did you derive or decide that one could use a minor chord and the other one could not? (It's totally fair to point me towards another article if the answer lays in there....)

Thanks again. :D :D]]> Guitar Players Discussion rparker https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372114 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372083 Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:38:04 +0000 Guitar Players Discussion rparker https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372083 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372081 Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:38:22 +0000
I have a 40 year old Mel Bay "Chord Cycles"...and have turned those many pages for decades...so I'm hep to what you guys are talkin' about. But you were, after all, talking about CREATION if I have that right???

Learn to connect with your heart.

"Feel what you play...play what you feel" has been at the bottom of my posts for donks...

This will take you to where you want to go with this marvelous instrument. Easy? Nope...

Again...tendering my apologies for seeming rather brusque...

Cat]]> Guitar Players Discussion Cat https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372081 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372080 Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:15:46 +0000
Thanks everyone for the great suggestions.

@Cat - That will come with time. I know this to be true with other hobbies and interests that I have developed the skill for. someday I'll be able to paste this al together, too. Articles like the one David pointed me to (and some that were linked to in that article) will help provide that tool set.

In the interim, please refrain from referring to other folks' efforts here in such a negative fashion. Disagree all you want, and diverse opinions are fantastic, but you'll get a lot further with something like "an alternative to that approach is....." than something like, "every reply is so freakin' over complicated.....". I'm sure you didn't mean for it to come off like an insult to others. You're normally much better than that. 8) 8)

So, now the process is to re-read david's article, yet again, and some of the articles it linked to within the article, along with Jeff's, Laz's and David's chord suggestions together. I'll reverse engineer, apply readings to the results and get the knowledge behind the feel and ear thing to be able to do exactly as you say.]]> Guitar Players Discussion rparker https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372080 https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372076 Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:47:00 +0000 Guitar Players Discussion jwmartin https://guitarnoise.forum/guitar-players-discussion/where-do-i-go-from-this-progression-start/#post-372076