https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Fri, 05 Jun 2026 00:23:23 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-377038 Mon, 06 Aug 2012 03:22:49 +0000
You have two choices in music: play whatever you want, or play what you get paid to play.

If you put 'artistic integrity' above everything else, you might be satisfied as an artist. You will probably also be doing something else for a living. Indeed, and to me having a day job is just a different kind of sell-out.

BTW, NoteBoat - regarding your excellent post: I did cruise ships for 3 years on a 3 week contract. The cruise director didn't tell us what to play. We looked at the passengers on the ship, and what the other entertainment was playing, and figured out what the ship needed. We did so well at it that they gave us a passenger sized cabin with a porthole (the ultimate perk).

The home office looks at the bar receipts, as it is their clue to where the people are spending their time. If you had bad bar receipts, it means nobody spent time in your lounge, and you wouldn't have lasted past the initial 3 weeks - they wouldn't have picked up the option.

So what did we play? Baby-boomer music. There was Swing, Latin, Piano Bar, Country and a Disco on those ships, but no "Old Time Rock And Roll", "Margaritaville" or "Don't Be Cruel" on the ship, and a lot of baby-boomer aged passengers.

threegtrz, Playing the audience can be give and take. Give them what they want, and then let them take a bit of what you want. If I were to learn a Commodores song, "Brick House" would be my first choice because it covers the most ground, then I'd learn "Night Shift" for myself. Pat Benatar's "You Better Run" may rock better than "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" but if you are going to do Benatar, you better also have "best shot".

I know a dozen Jimmy Buffett songs, and the first one I learned is the one I play most frequently, "Margaritaville". I even get the crowd to shout, "Salt, salt, where's the damn salt" at the end of each verse. Sometimes a little crowd silliness can help, "Sweet Caroline" also gets response, "Woah, Whoh Woah" and "So good, so good so good" responses.

I play what the management wants, if the management doesn't know or care I play what the audience wants, and every now and then I sneak in a song that Leilani or I wants. It works for us.

I don't consider anybody I play for my boss, I am an independent contractor, and it is up to me to provide a better service than my competition. So I do what needs to be done, and I've been making a living doing music and nothing but music for most of my life (So far).]]> Opinions and Polls notes_norton https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-377038 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-376957 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:49:26 +0000
I would like to return to one poster's questions about what makes a song a classic. To me, "Brickhouse" doesn't come close to "Fire" if you're going to play Commodores. Pat Benatar's "You Better Run" rocks better than "Hit Me with Your Best Shot". I suppose it's all very very subjective. But I've always thought there is a gold mine of great songs from "Revolver" right up to last night that were danceable hits but never get played.

Before I got my current job, I worked as a morning jock at an area Classic Rock station. The sales guy and I would constantly butt heads because he wanted me to stick to formula, while I would harken back to the AOR approach used in the 70s. I would still play the hits, I would just put Humble Pie next to Tommy Tutone, or Offspring after Peter Frampton e.g.; which made me a bit of a stepchild in the company's media empire. I was never #1, but I had a VERY loyal listenership.

Every place we play we burn it down. Folks like us because we're doing something different, and we are very danceable. When we book the gigs, we tell them right up front what they are in for because we travel a different orbit.

And the reality of that is, as validated on this forum, that we will always fight for recognition.]]> Opinions and Polls threegtrz https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-376957 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-376892 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:43:33 +0000
You have to know the audience and venue you are playing at (sometimes that's not possible)but that why you can gear the sets to what music would work. We had a show last Saturday and although we aren't playing any now it was the kind of bar that Lynyrd Skynyrd music would have gone over really well. We did play Mustang Sally and yes it got people dancing.

But I also realize we play a bunch of songs that we like but no one is going to dance to them liek Keep Away by Godsmack (unless they start mashing).

I'd liek to do more modern stuff we do one Black Keys song Lonely Boys and that goes over well and we are going to add Gold on the Ceiling and I know that will go over well even if people don't know it. It has a ctahcy beat that you can dance to.]]> Opinions and Polls cnev https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-376892 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-376881 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 00:46:55 +0000
If you put 'artistic integrity' above everything else, you might be satisfied as an artist. You will probably also be doing something else for a living.

If you put making money above everything else, you may never play music that thrills you. But you can make money.

Like most choices in life, this isn't either/or. I am quite happy making a living in music. I don't play original music often, nor play jazz very often, because I have a mortgage to pay. But that doesn't mean I never play music I like.

I detest the song "Tie a Yellow Ribbon". I have played it more times than I can count, always for a paycheck at the end of the night. But that doesn't mean I only play music I can't stand.

You can find a balance.

Bar bands play the same old tunes over and over because their job is to a) fill the bar, and b) having filled it, make the people dance. Dancing people get thirsty. Thirsty people buy drinks. People buying drinks make a bar owner happy. A happy bar owner will hire that band again.

Every tune you listed will get people dancing. In a three or four hour bar gig, you have MAYBE four to nine chances to play something that takes a chance - a slow ballad or an original tune. If people don't know it they won't dance to it. If they're dancing, and you start in on a slow ballad for your next number, lots of them will leave the dance floor. Once they're off the floor, some may leave the premises. Neither makes a happy bar owner.

If you want to play for pay, you may do the following types of gigs:

- weddings. During the ceremony, you'll play whatever the happy couple asks for. You don't want to play "Canon in D" for the umpteenth time? Suck it up. You're making $200 an hour or better (at least in my market). If you're playing the reception, the mother of the bride may ask for something from the 1940s. Play it. She's signing the check. You'll play the chicken dance. You'll play "beer barrel polka". You'll do Brick House, and countless other tunes you won't like. If you don't want to play them, rest assured there's a DJ who will... and he's probably cheaper. If you really care about live music, play whatever they want - it keeps people hearing live music.

- bar gigs. People didn't come to hear you play. They came to drink, and to be with their friends. If you get them dancing, they will drink. If you really care about live music, play what makes them dance - it keeps the bar owner hiring bands.

- charity gigs/fundraisers/background music. If I'm with a jazz trio that's doing a charity gig, they aren't there to hear the band. We're live Muzak in a way. We'll play light backgrounds music. We'll do Satin Doll - we won't be doing Giant Steps. If you care about live music, you play what fits - it keeps them hiring bands for the next event.

- musical theater. You'll play what's on the page. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's what the musical director needs. It's what the performers have rehearsed. You have zero latitude. If you care about having working musicians, you play what's needed - they could license a CD for their next staging.

- jingles. You'll play whatever the producer wants. That may be dots on a page, or it may be a general direction. Either way, you do not have free rein. If you show up wanting to shred and they want a smooth jazz sound, put away your Ingwie hat and start thinking Stan Getz.

- Sideman work. Here you're joining an established act for a night, a tour, or whatever. You play what they play. If you don't like to play it, you shouldn't have auditioned. They're committed to live music whatever you do, so your decision won't matter in the big picture. But if you're chosen for the job, do the job.

- Studio work. You often have latitude here, as you're the hired gun to make the product better. But it has to fit the product! If the band you're doing tracks for is reggae or country, you'd better be channeling Jimmy Cliff or Merle Haggard. If they hired you for 'your sound', great. If not, do what's needed to get the next gig - because it might need 'your sound'.

- Cruise ships. I've never done one of these, but many of my friends have, some for years. You play what the musical director says you'll play.

The bottom line: if it's a job, you have a boss. Do what the boss says. You won't get far in any kind of work if you specify what you will and won't do. Imagine being a customer service agent and telling your boss you only want to take calls from young single women between the ages of 18 and 35. That's essentially the stance you take if you want to play bar gigs, but only on your terms.

If your beef is that the music is all old, it doesn't have to be. In a bar gig, you could certainly impress folks by covering "Call Me Maybe". Anything on the current Billboard charts is pretty safe to add to the mix. But like the oldies, you may not like it.

If you only want to play music that inspires you, put out a CD of it. Tour to promote it. If audiences agree with your choices, you'll do ok. But that's a long shot.

To be happy as a working musician, find your own balance. When I do studio work or musical theatre, I play what I'm told to play. When I do live performances, I play what suits the purpose - charity gig, wedding, bar, whatever. When I teach, I play the styles and songs my students want to learn. And when I want to do my own thing, I compose, take part in jazz jams, or whatever. It's not always what I want, or even usually what I want. But I play guitar about 50-60 hours in an average week, and get paid reasonably well for it. I think that's a darn fair trade.]]> Opinions and Polls NoteBoat https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/paged/2/#post-376881 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376880 Mon, 30 Jul 2012 00:05:26 +0000 Opinions and Polls TRGuitar https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376880 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376875 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 23:21:20 +0000 Opinions and Polls Alan Green https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376875 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376866 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 21:55:18 +0000
I don't mind playing any of them - and I play them to the best of my ability and with maximum enthusiasm.

I've been a musician almost all my life (so far) and I'm now officially a Senior Citizen. I've had two day gigs, testing the straight world (always while gigging on the weekends) and neither real job agreed with me.

One of those jobs was a phone installer-repairman. Back when all phones were wired.

One day, I climbed a telephone pole to service a customer. Now climbing telephone poles is unsafe, you are held up by two spikes, perhaps 1/16" each into wood. There are two kinds of phone men, those who have fallen off or slid down a pole, and those who haven't - YET.

Anyway I'm about 18 feet high, below me are 4 chain link fences meeting at the corner, and some metal garbage cans. Nothing you want to land on if you fall (don't even want to think of straddling a fence after the acceleration of gravity has had its effect on me). So I open the terminal and about 200 paper wasps had decided to build their nest in there. Now you can't do anything fast, because if your spikes cut out, the fences are worse than the wasps, so I slowly and carefully climbed down the pole with my heart pounding. Fortunately the wasps didn't figure out it was me who had removed the cover.

Now if someone wants to hear Yakety Sax again, I just think of the wasps. Funny thing is, no matter how many times I've played a song, no matter how resistant I am about playing it again, as soon as the music starts I forget that I didn't want to play it and have a great time playing it in spite of myself.

I enjoy playing "Mustang Sally", "Old Time Rock And Roll", and yes, even "Yakety Sax."

But that's me. Perhaps that is why I make my living playing music.]]> Opinions and Polls notes_norton https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376866 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376863 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 17:59:09 +0000 I hope you can play exactly what you want and play as often as you like , whenever and wherever you want . In my experience , there have to be compromises made just as in all other relationships . Bar owners don't care if you play Twinkle , Twinkle Little Star if it keeps the people in their bar buying drinks . The reality is that you are hired to provide entertainment for their patrons and if you do that they'll have you back . Good luck !]]> Opinions and Polls Diceman https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376863 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376862 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:35:25 +0000
What seems to be happening here is very much in the area I live in. I spent almost a decade just trying to get into bands and running into resistance because I am not from here and didn't date the drummer's or singer's sister. Not to go off on a big personal tangent, but my wife and I have found it very difficult to make friends here because of that same reason despite living here over 20 years.

The "bar bands" here seem very content with coasting through the night musically and showing up for the gig in the same clothes they wore mowing the lawn. They do sub par performances and still get booked to the nines.

If someone wants to do those standards - and care enough to do them well - great. My respect will know no bounds. But if you don't care enough to try; if you're booked all the time but tell me "It ain't because I love it", I gotta call B.S.]]> Opinions and Polls threegtrz https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376862 https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376861 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:18:23 +0000
We're all guys in our 50s, and we figure we have a finite number of years we're going to be able to keep doing this. So we want to do something special and not be just another bar band.

So I guess that means we start from scratch and build an audience slowly and gradually. Wherever we play, we burn the place down; it's getting our feet in the door.Actually , it's the same thing you said in your first post . You asked for everyone's opinion , received some , and decided to do what you were going to do in the first place . That is your right and good luck with it .
The thing that annoys me about this post is that you seem to think that being " just another bar band " is easy . Well , it's not , especially for a bunch of guys in their fifties . Late nights , drunk patrons and owners , little real money , technical problems , drunk bandmates , late bandmates , barfights , the egomaniac guitarist/bassist/drummer who must be louder than everyone else , etc . , etc . " Just another bar band " is a badge of honor . When you get there maybe you'll understand .]]> Opinions and Polls Diceman https://guitarnoise.forum/opinions-and-polls/future-of-live-music/#post-376861