If tone is in the fingers....?

One more thought about this thread: Value isn't the same as price.

The price of a guitar depends on a bunch of things....

- materials. Better materials can make a better guitar, but it's no guarantee.

- workmanship. Automated factories make guitar manufacture more consistent, but nothing compares to a luthier knowing what he/she is doing when they make those final adjustments.

- brand. Brand has no bearing on the quality of an instrument - I've seen plenty of good no-name instruments, and a few real clunkers from top names. Brand does add to status, but you can't hear status.

And a couple other non-musical factors:

- aesthetics. The two most expensive guitars I have ever personally played were works of art. One was a one-of-a-kind guitar by a volume manufacturer. It didn't play as well as their off-the-shelf guitars (that were about 10% of the price). The other was luthier built, and played as good as it looked. While it was "worth" the price, I couldn't justify spending that much - the value of the inlay work means nothing to me.

- collectible premium. The third most expensive guitar I've ever played was a Gibson acoustic. Old enough that my grandfather might have bought one new. It had not aged well - previous owners hadn't treated it with much respect. I've played better guitars at 2% of the asking price. In that case it had really stopped being an instrument, and became an antique. This can work the other way too - the Fender amp I bought used 30 years ago is now worth more than 20x what I paid for it. But it's not for sale :)

The funny thing is, the cost of an instrument does NOT depend on how it sounds. There are always bargains to be had - and plenty of raw deals too. I prefer to buy with my eyes closed, and let my ears and fingers tell me if the price is justified.

I agree that tone is in the fingers, but can't express it as eloquently as others here - I do more talkin' with the tech stuff.

I also observe that different guitars sounds different, there are probably no two exactly alike; and different amps sound different as well, to a degree.

So, I'd say IMO, that it really helps to have good equipment in the first place, acoustic or electric, but the FINGERS are kind of what makes the 'body english" or sound characteristic.

And yeah, isn't it more or less true that B.B. King seems to embody this the most, of all players cited, along with Clapton to a large degree, and it's because of players like them that we can use the phrase, and perpetuate it?

As far as I'm concerned, no guitar is worth more than I'm willing to pay for it. 8)

All I know is that if David Gilmour palced his Strat in the guitar stand and then asked me to pick it up and play something, it would not sound like the same guitar. That is incontrovertible. Yes, tone is in the fingers-coupled with an impeccable ear.

After reading all these posts, I guess I'm in the minority when I see my guitar as a tool, and not an extension or anything. Maybe it's because I've never been around anyone who can play music, or maybe I'm just not to that "level" yet. But I could easily replace my guitars with others, and not feel upset or bad about it. I like the guitars I have, but if something happened to one of them, I wouldn't be too upset if I had to get another brand etc.

Most guitars sound the same to me, but on occassion I can hear a difference in the brands when comparing side by side. Hence the topic. I'm glad I got a bunch of opinions on it, it has made an interesting read.

It occurs to me that if you simplify the imagery, say we are talking bowling balls instead, it won't matter which one you put in my hands, (assuming the same weight and fit) I'll bowl 170ish. But get to the pro level and you have a different ball per lane type, different grips, fingertip, semi, etc. So a great bowling ball may make a great deal of difference in the hands of a pro, but then again, they could probably bowl a strike with a house ball.

I have no idea what the point of what I was writing anymore, so I give up.

It comes from your fingers but a good guitar makes it easier to get it out?

It comes from your fingers but a good guitar makes it easier to get it out?

Yes TR, I agree, and have been thinking about this post alot since it came out. I felt that I only made a partial or incomplete response and observation, and not so direct and correct and correct as yours. And I only cited 2 artists, knowing that there is at least another.

You know that there's tone in certain guitars when you go into a store, audition room, and try out different good acoustic guitars. Some just vibrate or shimmer with tone, and some are likely to be more dead, but not in a really good guitar emporium.

Some stand out, and the front soundboard just resonates, while the rear can tickle your tummy, and that's a good guitar that has tone! :) With some you hear a big boom, and great balance. Others seem so shallow.

It's perhaps the mail-order acoustics and cheaper guitars, like $200 that are bound to be sonically challenged, no matter how good our fingers are. I have played some awful guitars.

When it comes to electrics - different story. I think that's where the term finger tone is really alive and pertinent. I forgot to mention that this man almost had the patent on it? :shock:

So, here's a short Roy Buchanan (R.I.P) video for those with time and an ear for some of the nuances and finer details of guitar noise and expression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOptDDU3rOo

more simply -- and IMNSHO, correctly: tone starts with the fingers. (maybe someone said this above already?)

the fingers do all the first order production of a note (often vastly simplified as frequency and ADSR). everything after that filters, shapes and sometimes limits what end sound will be.

if someone hands me a guitar and says, "play a note on this beauty!" or "strum this!", I am tempted to ask what kind of note or strum, because I have so many ways of creating, nurturing and ending notes using just my fingers and hands.

I'll play anything I can make sound good.

Heck, most days I'll play anything I can make sound bad.

BUt seriously- tone is in the fingers at some level. My best guitar sounds nice when I play it, but it sounds better when my friend Oz (who has been playing ten times as long) does. Still, my best sounds better than my beater, even with me playing it! And maybe as important as how it sounds is that it feels better, smoother, easier to play. Action, fretboard, weight, balance, tuning stability, even the movement of the nobs are all enough better on this one that I can play it better. And it's more fun, which means I practice more. Which is really what I spent the extra money on this one for.

Best,
Ande

Tone is in the fingers but transmitted through the guitar. This doesn't mean more expensive is better though. A cheap instrument may be the perfect match for an individuals fingers. :?
I totally agree. Add feeling transmitted through the fingers.....transmitted to to neck, etc.....

You don't have to have an expensive instrument to play or express your feelings in music..... all you need is a tin can.

I see alot of people say that their guitar sounds good when they play it but sounds better when so and so plays it, and I'm wondering if it sounds better when they are playing "because" they are playing, and would that person have the same opinion if the situations were reversed.

I tend to think that no matter how well I play the person that's playing it right after me or before me, makes it sound better, but wonder if that's because I'm the one playing it and not listening to it.

Yeah i ask that exact same question to myself, do they sound better because I'm actually listening to them or because they are better O_O.

Everyone has a different style thats for sure though you definetly won't sound the same as somebody who has been playing the same time as you and listens to the same stuff as you its all about personality, and how you express yourself with the guitar.

But I think we always will look at those little mistakes nobody notices when its us playing.

I think it may sound better to hear someone else play an acoustic, as the sound is being projected forward.
So, as a player you wont hear the acoustic the same as a listener.

With amplified electrics, that's not so....
in fact, to me electrics sound much better when I play them as you can really only pick up a lot of subtle things
on an electric if you are the one in control.

As an example: balanced pups.... I can't really tell if someones Strat has balanced pups or not until I actually play it myself.
Of course, balancing pups is a personal preference to the players own ear, playing style and amp used, etc....
Still, they can be just horribly off.

Ken

If tone is in the fingers
Why did I pay a lot
For this expensive geetar
That I shouldn't 'a bought

It's pretty and well crafted
And has a well known name
But compared to my cheap one
The sound is just the same

Maybe because it's pretty
I'll tend to play it more
Or maybe I'll return it
To that geetar store

If tone is what I'm wanting
I'll find another ax
With a special knob for tone
And turn that knob to max