Sickest Possible Guitar Riff Ever.

ok. Dont mean to be rude, but yeah, after the first long reply, I just kinda started skipping over the 5 pages of replys lol.

Sorry guys, after I realized that every reply is pretty much the same thing, I just kinda ignored it all.

So let me correct myself.
It was not the sickest possible guitar riff ever. I do apologize, it was not.

In my opinion note boat, I for some reason in this wild mind of mine, for some reason thought that few seconds of that vid were pretty cool.

Did not, in any way possible mean to start a 4 page 60 reply argument.

Sorry everyone

I love how you say this as if 'sickest guitar riff ever' is gonna be some objective thing.... :wink: No worries man, it sparked some good debate, and a bunch of peopel re-evaluated/checked out Malmsteem when they wouldn't have beforehand. Despite my contribution to the argument/debate, I benefited from ti all, found a few players I wanna keep tabs on, refreshed my dislike of YM (sorry, just my pov), and generally clarified my views a bit more than they were previously.

When I was in college, I was in a class that focused on bring technology into the classroom. So, I had to use a program to design and write an advertisement. I didn't do as well as I'd hoped to because the professor said I had too much going on in my ad and he thought that possible viewers wouldnt know where to look first. I had too many pictures and too much text and I tried to cram all the info I could into one magazine sized piece of paper (ironically, the president of my school does her advertisements THE SAME WAY and it annoys me to no end). He was right, when I looked at it, my eye got confused and I was inclined to simply skip over it and look at the other ads my classmates made that were much better. They used white space to their advantage and made a more tasteful and palatable ad.

I see Malmsteen's music as equivalent to my Ad-On-Steroids. There is so much going on, from that harsh buzzsaw distortion to the constant neverending stream of notes and notes and notes and more notes. It's not that he doesnt have emotion or feeling...that's crap. The problem is that our ears don't know what the hell they should listen to. It's auditory overload.

Some people dig that. Some people don't. I don't want to make any sweeping generalizations or ignite another fire, but I think it's true that this type of music (malmsteen etc) is marketable to a very targeted audience. I simply think that the majority of people are not geared toward it and those who are are in the minority. Nothing wrong with that.

Metallica Man, let first say that I love shred guitar. I also think that MANY more people would love shred guitar and metal if the singers actually sang instead of just shouting and making ape noises.

I also love classic rock, early rock, modern rock, whatever. They all have their place. And I listen to each depending on my mood.

I find it REALLY distrubing that so many people are saying that shred guitar playing lacks emotion. Are you kidding? Seriously? While some players might be able to just "shred" with no thought, I suspect many need to get into the mood to do it properly. I mean, we are human beings not robots. Don't you agree that you must find your "inner spirit" to really play any song the way you want?? The "no soul" notion astounds me. Do Jazz players play with soul? I don't get that music at all, but I imagine they play with soul. Is it because the music is considered "artistic" so it has soul? What about punk? I would strongly suggest that punk has LOTS of soul and emotion. Right? I mean they are playing from the heart. Isn't that the idea? What about the organist at your church? We KNOW she is playing with soul, right? Or is the old lady just going through the motions with the Prayer of St. Francis?

Talk about condescending.

While the line of "shred" guitar is a bit blurry (is Metallica shred guitar? Satriani? Dragonforce?) I would ask that people listed to ORION by Metallica. It is a full instrumental, and it has what I consider one of the most emotional riffs in all of rock. Just a sweet and melancholchy riff that sets the stage for the solo that is coming. While this tune may not be totally "shred" it certainly underlines that these hard rock/metal players can play with emotion just as well as the Jeff Beck's of the world.

I'd have to add that I don't love shred guitar but I would love to be able to play that type of music. But Dali I think your points are valid and I've seen the comments here and elsewhere that somehow shredding has no emotin..What does that mean? because you don't bend a note and hold it for ten seconds there's no emotion in it?

I never really understood that argument...and how do you actually play with emotion/feeling..To me you play a set of notes which either you play correctly or not..where does the emotion piece of it come in. If I jump around and make faces while I'm playing does that mean I'm playing with emotion.

I keep hearing names like Gilmour etc playing with emotion vs an Yngwie..can some one tell me how they determined that Yngwie doesn't play with emotion? Because he ripped off 100 notes in the span of 3 seconds vs Gilmour playing the same note for three seconds?

Hum, soul and emotion. When you say soul, you really mean emotion. Isnt emotion a response? Some one plays a beautiful peice and they are moved by what they hear.. its their emotional response. So, can someone really play with emotion? Well, sort of.. they are the player but they are still responding to what they are playing. So, is someone like Malmsteen playing with emotion? Sure, he is feeling it. Several of you are feeling it... responding to it..

What am I getting at? Dali used punk as an example. Well, would I think they are playing with emotion? You bet.. Would my grandmother? NO WAY. But the question being asked is akward to begin with. Emotion is the response not the stimulus. What stimulates each of us is something different.

Atleast that is my take.. even if it was just a bit of a ramble.
Jim

geoo,

I think we are all saying the same thing, but there have been hundreds of posts about people like Yngwie and somewhere in there someone will mention that he plays a hundred notes a minute and there is no feeling or emotion in what he's doing compared to someone like David Gilmour who plays with feeling/emotion.

I agree with you about emotion being more of a response that's why I really never got the concept of the difference between someone playing with emotion and somone that's not.

I think people say that becuase they don't like that type of music and feel the need to justify there position by categorizing it as having no emotion to it.

I found this video of Yngwie playing live and liked it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cm-w62o9o8

Look, if you love Yngwie, or any shredder MORE POWER TO YOU.

My problem with shredders is this: I ALWAYS get the impression that the message of the music is LOOK HOW GREAT I CAN PLAY. Sure, Yngwie is playing some great music here, but I am always drawn away from the music and focus on Yngwie. And I'm sorry, but the impression I get is that Yngwie wants you to focus on HIM, not the music.

Whoever said Hendrix wasn't innovative was simply not alive back in 1967 when Are You Experienced came out. If you were alive at that time you would have easily understood how different and revolutionary his music was. In 1967, music like Third Stone From the Sun was simply mind-blowing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbCcv_bJBN0

I get the impression here that the MUSIC is important, not the player.

If not for Hendrix, people would still be playing guitar like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbRKfieMsdQ

Not putting that down, I am a huge Beach Boys fan, but that is what most guitar sounded like in 1967. But as Jimi said in Third Stone "you will never hear Surf Music again". And after Jimi, you haven't.

Hendrix was just a step in the path. He brought in huge volume, feedback, effects.... Eddie Van Halen was another step with his tapping and harmonics. This is where shred guitar began. You wouldn't have shred guitar if it weren't for players like this.

I found this video of Yngwie playing live and liked it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cm-w62o9o8

Look, if you love Yngwie, or any shredder MORE POWER TO YOU.

My problem with shredders is this: I ALWAYS get the impression that the message of the music is LOOK HOW GREAT I CAN PLAY. Sure, Yngwie is playing some great music here, but I am always drawn away from the music and focus on Yngwie. And I'm sorry, but the impression I get is that Yngwie wants you to focus on HIM, not the music.

Whoever said Hendrix wasn't innovative was simply not alive back in 1967 when Are You Experienced came out. If you were alive at that time you would have easily understood how different and revolutionary his music was. In 1967, music like Third Stone From the Sun was simply mind-blowing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbCcv_bJBN0

I get the impression here that the MUSIC is important, not the player.

If not for Hendrix, people would still be playing guitar like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbRKfieMsdQ

Not putting that down, I am a huge Beach Boys fan, but that is what most guitar sounded like in 1967. But as Jimi said in Third Stone "you will never hear Surf Music again". And after Jimi, you haven't.

Hendrix was just a step in the path. He brought in huge volume, feedback, effects.... Eddie Van Halen was another step with his tapping and harmonics. This is where shred guitar began. You wouldn't have shred guitar if it weren't for players like this.

You can't debate whether or not he was innovative. An innovation is defined as something new or different. An innovation is not necessary a step in the right direction, other it would be called an improvement. This is where personal opinion will come into play. Personally, if the consequences of having no Hendrix are us still playing surf rock, it wouldn't be a bad thing. At least not for me, I like surf music, it's upbeat, makes you fee like you are on vacation unlike the blues that Hendrix plays which I find really really depressing. So a world with more surf and less blues would be awesome.

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion on Hendrix's music. My point is, I don't like him, others do not like him and it's perfectly acceptable. Not everyone will like Hendrix and no one should have to like him.

Whether you like Hendrix or not is a personal choice, I have no problems with that. Hendrix was an influence on me, but I was into many other guitarists like Jimmy Page, Steve Howe, Eric Clapton and many others.

But you said Hendrix was not innovative. And I answered that you must not have been alive when Hendrix hit the scene in 1967, because nobody who was old enough to know what was going on at that time would say such a thing. Hendrix had not only a tremendous influence on the way guitar was played, he was also inventive in the studio. Hendrix pretty much invented panning and many other studio effects. Professionals were amazed that he could create sounds in the studio they had never even thought of, much less knew how to create.

Go back and listen to Third Stone From the Sun. But listen to the background sounds, that is where the real creativity is. And most of those strange sounds were created by Hendrix on the guitar. And Hendrix only used a very few effects. Most of those sounds came from his hands, something many have tried to copy but have never been able to imitate.

Many of the studio effects you take for granted today were created by Jimi. He was immensely innovative, I don't care what your definition of innovative is.

You obviously weren't around at that time.

Whether you like Hendrix or not is a personal choice, I have no problems with that. Hendrix was an influence on me, but I was into many other guitarists like Jimmy Page, Steve Howe, Eric Clapton and many others.

But you said Hendrix was not innovative. And I answered that you must not have been alive when Hendrix hit the scene in 1967, because nobody who was old enough to know what was going on at that time would say such a thing. Hendrix had not only a tremendous influence on the way guitar was played, he was also inventive in the studio. Hendrix pretty much invented panning and many other studio effects. Professionals were amazed that he could create sounds in the studio they had never even thought of, much less knew how to create.

Go back and listen to Third Stone From the Sun. But listen to the background sounds, that is where the real creativity is. And most of those strange sounds were created by Hendrix on the guitar. And Hendrix only used a very few effects. Most of those sounds came from his hands, something many have tried to copy but have never been able to imitate.

Many of the studio effects you take for granted today were created by Jimi. He was immensely innovative, I don't care what your definition of innovative is.

You obviously weren't around at that time.
Yea, to say Hendrix was innovative is just stubborn, biased and close-minded sorry. I have no problems with people who don't like Hendrix (though I can't understand how), but I do have a problem if you say he wasn't influential. That's just flat out idiotic. Have you only heard Purple Haze? Foxy Lady? Fire?

Come on...open your eyes. The guy was a magician with the guitar live, and in the studio. As Wes said, Hendrix created so many sounds in the studio. Though I can understand people don't have the patience for the song, but 1983 (A Merman I Should Turn to be) is a studio masterpiece. I would LOVE to hear that song played by an orchestra. It'd be beautiful. But anyways, before that you'd never hear anything like that.

As Wes said, back in 1967 you would have heard nothing like Hendrix. Obviously you had Townshend smashing his amplifiers with The Who. And Eric "God" Clapton with Cream, but when Hendrix came along even those two guys realized, "wow, I guess I have to practice a whole lot more."

And don't tell me Hendrix didn't have some uplifting songs-
Bold as Love
Message of Love
Angel
Come On (Earl King wrote it)
Drifting
Rainy Day, Dream Away
Voodoo Child (Slight Return)
Power of Soul

And that's only off the top of my head.

Oh and how about other innovative thing Hendrix has brought about?

-Palm muting...listen to it in songs like Stone Free.

-Use of the pinky with the thumb over the neck technique. Obviously many guitarists have used this before him, but not with the use of chords like Hendrix did.

-Use of feedback

-Use of effects. The wah and fuzz came before Jimi, but Jimi made it if that makes any sense. Nobody realized the pre-amp effects of the fuzz. And why the hell do we have so many damn companies making effects nowadays? Because of Jimi. But he did it with the primitive versions of these effects.

I'm just baffled that you can he's not innovative.

Hi everyone... after reading this thread yesterday I had to go home and listen to some Metallica. As I was shuffling around I listened to "One" - while it may not be the true (in my opinion) Metallica shred-tune, I was amazed listening to it again. It had been about a year since I heard the song and I marveled at how "perfect" that song was to release to the masses during those pre-metal days in the late 80's. Sure, Bon Jovi and Van Halen were around, but until "One" was released on MTV most of the population didn't have any idea about the new metal (Speedmetal, it was called back then).

The song opens with some REALLY nice melodic lines and small solos. Hetfield's singing (and the lyrics) are marginal at the beginning, but then the song rips into more metal territory and really displays what Metallica (and others) were all about. And the solo is just great. I was listening to the solo last night and thinking of everyone here... if you haven't "felt" a solo from a shredder you should put "One" on and crank up the volume. A great solo with great feeling.

Not Metallica's best song, but a perfect one to release to the everyday listener at the time. The melodic riff drew people in and then the chug-chug guitars kick in. Cool stuff.

On an unrelated-but-related subject... I agree Wes, Hendrix was very innovative. There is no question. I like some of his stuff, but I do think his "god-status" is related (to a degree) to his untimely death. Pete Townsend was hugely innovative as well, and far more commerically successful, but is not nearly as highly-regarded as Hendrix as a guitar player. Perhaps it is due to the lack of solos and theater.

I think people have to remember, as well, that even simple stuff can be innovative if no-one ever did it before. Hendrix was very in-your-face with his playing and theatrics so he stands out, but others (such as many of the early blues players) were extremely innovative and forward-thinking even though their playing may sound intermediate today.

Sunset Grunge - if we had been playing Surf Music for the last 40 years you and I would never have picked up the guitar.

My 2 cents, when it comes to music, I think that if you're not into the artist or type of music that artist plays, than its tough to understand/appreciate (or really care, for that matter) about that person's place in music history. I'm a HUGE Hendrix fan, love late 60's - early 70's classic rock, just starting to really get into the blues, and just starting to learn to play the guitar to boot. So when you add my musically taste and interests together, it's easy for me to see why I guy like Hendrix (or Page, or Clapton, etc, etc.) occupy the legendary status they do. On the flip side, if that's not your thing, then its just as easy for me to see why someone listens to it and says "huh - what's the big deal" so, within that context, I can't hold it against someone if they don't necessarily have the same guitar gods as I do.

Anyhow, long way of saying...whether its Hendrix, Yngwie, etc. different strokes for different folks.

-Palm muting...listen to it in songs like Stone Free.

Palm muting has been around since classical music.
Use of the pinky with the thumb over the neck technique. Obviously many guitarists have used this before him, but not with the use of chords like Hendrix did.

I can't find anything to confirm this but don't really care how they make the music.
-Use of feedback

I couldn't find anything to confirm this either. Wikipedia's article touches on it but does not site any sources. It credits Robert Ashley as the first and the Beatles shortly their after. Like I said though, it could be wrong as it does not site sources.
-Use of effects. The wah and fuzz came before Jimi, but Jimi made it if that makes any sense. Nobody realized the pre-amp effects of the fuzz. And why the hell do we have so many darn companies making effects nowadays? Because of Jimi. But he did it with the primitive versions of these effects.

I did manage to find a few things confirming this for wah. Though for the fuzz two articles claim it was Keith Richards in Satisfaction that brought up the popularity of the fuzz box, not Hendrix.

This is a small web hunt but it definitely doesn't get me any closer to believing Hendrix was innovative. Wes could be right, it could be I wasn't around during the time to appreciate it. I did just learn that in the 90's, grunge guitarists used preamps similar to the ones Hendrix and other guitarists from his era used. So I can thank him for that.

Well, if you're looking for absolute firsts, folks did chording with the thumb over long before Jimi did - in fact, the Mel Bay books, which were written in the late 1940s, show a thumb-over fingering for a Gm chord. Johnny Smith also did a lot of thumb-over (he had big hands like Jimi). And other folks used feedback long before Jimi, too.

But you don't have to look too hard to find something Jimi truly pioneered - listen to Bold as Love. The second guitar solo is backwards, a technique known as "backmasking". Although others (like the Beatles) had run tape backwards before, as far as I know, this is the first instance of somebody reversing only one instrument - and given the recording technology of the time, that was not an intuitive thing to do. He clearly had a visual plan of what to do before anyone else.

I agree with Wes - the only way to really gauge the influence of any artist is to be around at the time... stuff gets passed around and imitated pretty quickly, so it's easy to lose perspective. Within a fairly short period of time, anything cool gets imitated, and it's easy to forget what the landscape was like before an innovator.

I personally think that there are lots of other artists who should be credited with the "innovator" title who are never mentioned (Link Wray probably tops my list for rock innovators), but I wouldn't cross Jimi off the list.