https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Thu, 04 Jun 2026 22:25:18 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-368986 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:03:48 +0000
It was especially good to read how much concentration and work that you put into the early stages. It sounds a bit similar to the way I write lyrics, which is to push hard initially until enough of the song has "set" to be able to work on it later at a less intense level. If I don't get past a certain percentage reasonably early then the chances of keeping it going on life support usually diminish considerably.

I'd very much like to work my way closer to your "music first" position, or at the least have a more solid musical development happening earlier. However, as a late starter to music, that will take a long while yet. Over the years I've spent thousands of hours at various types of writing, so the words do come a lot easier to me. The trap is that if I focus on the words too much and lose the sound of the accompanying music then it's all to easy to end up with mediocre verse that might look adequate on the page, but doesn't really fly properly as a song. Some good tips and insights about your composition methods there, so I'll try and follow some of those suggestions. The great thing is though, as you say, that the process itself is a lot of fun so even if the songs don't always quite work out there's still something learnt.

Cheers,

Chris]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-368986 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-368982 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:34:46 +0000
As you might know, I tend to fall into the "music first" category of songwriter. Not always, of course because who can write songs the same way every time without sounding the same? But that's kind of the point. For whatever reason, when I start with a lyric, the lyric tends to be (a) lengthy and (b) almost without fail in iambic format, usually in lines of eight and six -

da Da da Da da Da da Da
da Da da Da da Da

Coming up with music first usually allows me then focus on a melody, which can be independent of syllable awareness which then allow me to focus on how a song lyric sounds as well as what it says.

Usually when I come up with an idea for either a chord progression or a riff or a melody, I will spend the first day with it (day referring to the first twenty-four hours of coming up with it) playing it as often as possible (not easy when you live with someone who's easily irritated by constantly repeated music!) - initially anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour and then go back to it for ten to fifteen minute intervals at various points, whenever there's a bit of free time to tinker with. And usually by the end of the day I've got it into my ears and fingers to the point where I can hear the progression (or riff or melody) in my head whenever I want to. I use the second day to reinforce the music in my head to the point where I can recall it pretty much at any time.

As for what sparks it in the first place, while sometimes it is definitely a mood, quite often it's also an idea based on either something I've heard or read or just came up with. Then when I'm playing around with the idea, the music may itself suggest the mood which in turn will suggest possibly a melody or even a lyrical phrase. That's kind of what happened to me with today's bit in the "notes" at the top of the thread. I'd been listening to Randy Newman's "Marie" (an incredibly gorgeous song) and then playing around a bit with it and found a cool (and simple) riff for the first chord, D7. This led to giving the song a completely different feel - very playful and a bit reminiscent of vaudeville. That led me to coming up with a quick modulation of keys for the third line of the song (from G to Gm) and a kind of "Winchester Cathedral" feel for the chorus. It also led to a tag line of "A Day Just Like Any Other Day" which works well for the last line of both the verse and the chorus.

Some of this is experience. Because I listen to all kinds of music I've got a good chord vocabulary and because I play the guitar a lot I can do use a lot of chord shapes in order to create voicings for interesting voice leading. But that experience, in all honesty, comes from a lot of repetition and a lot of trial and error in my "early days." As simple as it sounds, it is very much another example of "the more you do it, the easier some of the steps in the process sometimes becomes." The key words there are "some of the steps" and "sometimes." There are times when I slam up against a wall, just like anyone. And there are also times, again just like everyone, where the wall comes down and seemingly torrents of ideas come rushing out. That's not really the case as much as it is that all the ideas simply managed to come together at the same time.

If there's anything I'd recommend it's not to try to do too much at once. For starters, songs are only three to four minutes long unless there's a truly compelling reason for them not to be. But it's amazing how many people treat songs like an author's first book. They are afraid there will never be another one so it's jammed with way too many ideas both musically and lyrically for it to be much of a conduit to the audience (and the audience has to be the primary concern of any songwriter who's interested in songs as opposed to interested in writing a personal musical diary). So try to focus on one shape or one interesting chord progression or one cool riff to start with and finish that up. If you don't like the result, then you can start over and use it again in a different context.

Of course, there's no one way that works all the time and part of the fun of writing a song is watching the song itself grow and evolve. Like people, songs have lives of their own and sometimes the songwriter never knows how his or her song is going to turn out. Unless you never start in somewhere. Then it's guaranteed to never have a chance at all.

Hope this helps and looking forward to trying to keep up with everyone on the SSG.

Peace]]> Sunday Songwriters Group David Hodge https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-368982 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-368973 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:01:58 +0000 Mostly music ideas today:
Excellent. :D With this assignment, I've been doggedly clinging to the frequently recommended idea of carrying a notebook to jot down ideas for lyrics. But music ideas can be noted down too. Do you find it easy to reconnect with the original feel of what you were fiddling around with? My biggest problem isn't generating ideas, it's hanging on to them long enough to get them into some sort of useful shape. I've tried writing down chords, but in themselves they don't tell me much. Like the words, they'll change as things progress anyway. But there's a sort of indefinable mood, spirit, essence (or whatever you'd call it) to something that sparks it all off in the first place but which can be incredibly hard to preserve during the early stages. Do you find that? Or does your considerable musical experience carry you through? Or do you have ways of pinning down the more ephemeral elements that might otherwise escape?

Cheers,

Chris]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-368973 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-41752 Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:40:38 +0000 Sunday

Mostly music ideas today:

7/4 piece with potential chord progresion for verses:

A6 (six beats) G6 (one beat)
alternating D and D6 (six beats) G (one beat)
Cadd9 (six beats) Bbadd9 (one beat)
F6 (six beats) G6 (one beat) and back to start

Possible rocking piece:

Verses: A (typical rock shuffle - a la Led Zeppelin's "Rock and Roll" or the Kinks' "Jukebox Music") for twelve beats going into a G to D turnaround

Chorus: two beats each of F, Bb, G, Bb repeated four times with the last time going from the final Bb back to the A of the verse.


Monday

Possible opening (or closing) stanza for "Preserving the Ruins" (an old title I've never done anything with):

We lose so much so quickly
Things stay buried so long
'Til somebody some day digs them out of our hearts and our songs


Tuesday

Music for "Day Just Like Any Other Day" (working title)

Verse:
D7 with open position pull-off riffs (eight beats) C7 (four beats) G (four beats)
D7 with open position pull-off riffs (eight beats) C7 (four beats) G (four beats)
F9 (x87888) (eight beats) Bb (root 6 barre) (four beats) Gm (root 6 barre) (four beats)
D7 (open) (eight beats) G (eight beats)

Chorus:

D - D6 (x0077 and flit between 10 and 7 on high E) (six beats)
Am - Am9 (x0555 and flit between 5 and 7 on high E) (two beats)
G - G6 (open G and flit between 3 and 0 on high E) (eight beats) REPEAT THESE THREE LINES THREE TIMES
D7 (open) (eight beats) G (eight beats)


Peace]]> Sunday Songwriters Group David Hodge https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg-year-9-week-44-dhodge-notes/#post-41752