https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/ Guitar Noise Discussion Board en-US Fri, 05 Jun 2026 00:58:30 +0000 wpForo 60 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316693 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:58:06 +0000

. or maybe change it to
"And he rolled to the floor with a thud" ("to" instead of "on")
Done. :D
It's a minor point . . .
and comes down to writing something that might be technically correct versus something that provides better imagery.
And since we're not being graded by an English teacher, I vote for building the imagery.

So, babbling - stop - leaving
Sometimes getting the minor points right makes all the difference. And there's gold in them thar babblings, so keep them coming... :mrgreen:

Cheers,

Chris]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316693 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316690 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:44:16 +0000 The brain is wired a certain way. Sometimes just tossing out words is enough for a reader or listener to paste them together to make sense out of the words. They will usually build their own imagery.
As a speaker/lecturer I was aware of that and picked out key words in a concept to emphasize when speaking.
And although it may be more correct to say he fell to the floor, saying that he rolled is automatically attributed to her shoving him out of bed. The reader/listener will make the connections. At least that's the way it worked for me.
So, yeh, I understand the "roll - floor - thud" sequence.
Leave it . . . or maybe change it to
"And he rolled to the floor with a thud" ("to" instead of "on")
It's a minor point . . .
and comes down to writing something that might be technically correct versus something that provides better imagery.
And since we're not being graded by an English teacher, I vote for building the imagery.

So, babbling - stop - leaving

KR2]]> Sunday Songwriters Group KR2 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316690 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316686 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:33:38 +0000 I don't have much to say about any changes.
It worked for me so I wouldn't mess with it too much.
Thanks Ken, that's good to hear. :)
I will say that I agree with James. The line with joke stuck out as not belonging when I read it.
But when you sang it, it worked without a hitch. That's especially good to hear! :D

I'm trying hard at the moment to let go of my usual writing style which (probably a bit like yours) tends to have rather a lot of words in it. One of the fascinating things about writing is trying to get the right style to fit the demands of each form. So dialogue in film has very different pacing and content than for a stage piece, and the character in a song can have gone from birth to death in the space where in a novel his parents possibly hadn't even met yet. When I read the extract from the book that you're working on, I was struck how good you were at pruning things down into short sentences (which I'm bad at) so, from what you said about your tendency for lots of words, I'm guessing that must have taken deliberate work on your part. I'm trying to do something similar in songs now.

At some stage in the process I'll stop and jot down what the key ideas are, rough out what each verse has to establish, and then try and put the key words in the right spots for the singer. Having read a few lyrics in songbooks lately I've been struck how odd or clunky they can look on a page, yet work brilliantly when sung, because all the key elements hit the right parts of the music. If you get a handful of key words and phrases highlighted well by the singer it seems that the listener will mentally fill in the rest of the story for you. I bought a book of Bruce Springsteen's song a while back - expecting to read quite detailed stories in his lyrics - and was intrigued to find that in many cases it was just splashes of well placed verbal colour, and that I'd imagined the rest.

One minor point,
He might have rolled out of bed and hit the floor with a thud
But did he roll on the floor with a thud
or he fell to the floor with a thud ? Good points.

I had used 'bed' in the previous line, to establish that she was pushing him out, and the key words in the next line were "floor" and "thud", with "rolled" being of secondary importance, although that's how I'd seen it - with her literally rolling him over until he went over the edge. So I was trying to say "He she rolled him out of bed and he fell heavily onto the floor " but that's too long. I think that your suggestion of "he fell to the floor with a thud" is probably an improvement over what I've currently got, so I'll run the highlighter through that one too, and look again later. In general, I'm coming to believe that songs have their own weird logic and that what suits the singer is by far the most critical part. So if "rolled" "floor" and "thud" all hit the beat and suit what the singer does with them, then the words in between become just wallpaper and the image comes to life. However, "fell" does look like it could do a better job than "rolled". I'll have to sing it and see. :)

All this stuff about key word placement and singer impact might sound like a load of old waffle (and perhaps it is...) but it's something I'm looking closely at now.

Another problem that I thought I'd have with this song was getting the twist to work. No use having a punch-line if the audience don't get that she'd been dreaming about the lover and ended up pushing her own husband out of bed by mistake. So I gave the husband a name and used it a couple of times to try and get it to stick, but only called the other guy things like "stud" "lover" "bit on the side" etc. Initially I was thinking of the lover as Jeff ( could have rhymed with 'deaf' when she tried to wake him) but I thought it probably wouldn't come off. On the page it would be clear who was Mick and who was Jeff, but on one hearing the audience probably wouldn't remember exactly who was who. In the end, I decided that you really couldn't guarantee that everybody would get it, but used the epilogue verse to both wrap up the tale, and underline the mix-up - "make sure you know who's in your bed..".

Some rhymes I thought of

Frisky - risky
delicious – capricious Thanks. :) I've jotted them down

I think it mostly worked, but I'll go through it again bearing everybody's suggestions in mind. Thanks for all the input - this is turning into a great learning experience.

Cheers,

Chris]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316686 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316648 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:29:35 +0000 As usual, that brought out some chuckles.

I don't have much to say about any changes.
It worked for me so I wouldn't mess with it too much.

I will say that I agree with James. The line with joke stuck out as not belonging when I read it.
But when you sang it, it worked without a hitch.
But you've already addressed that. No need to repeat it.

One minor point,
He might have rolled out of bed and hit the floor with a thud
But did he roll on the floor with a thud
or he fell to the floor with a thud ?

Some rhymes I thought of

Frisky - risky
delicious – capricious

nevermind, it's good the way it is.]]> Sunday Songwriters Group KR2 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316648 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316647 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:21:11 +0000
If that's how it is ....then good on you, mate! :wink: ...(We had an Australian speak to the faculty at our school today) :D

I get the sense reading between the lines many people posting already feel this way...but I will write it straight out by saying...when I suggest, it's only a piece of the puzzle...one perspective....so one phrase that might sound a bit awkward in one culture works best in another...I think it's still good to point out what sounds unfamiliar so the writer is aware of what is coming across, but ultimately knowing who your writing for should be a major factor in deciding what phrases to keep or change.]]> Sunday Songwriters Group jamestoffee https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316647 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316646 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:58:51 +0000
If Mick's home early he'll pluck my duck - :D :D :D That was one of those choices where I started with a more obvious phrase (about the goose) but "plucked my duck" just popped into mind. It' s more or less nonsense and doesn't really seem to have any reason to be there, but it was much more fun to sing, easier to put some 'oomph' in, and had a vaguely racy tone that seemd to suit. Sometimes the unlikely or unexpected things end up being the ones I end up liking in a song. The unprectability of writing songs seems part of the fun... :)


Good job, Chris. ....sorry to hear about the recording issues :( ...it's probably a rite of passage process for home recorders...like calluses for guitarists.... :wink: So true.

I started guitar late (nearly 60) and singing and recording this year (62) so I have a lot of 'rites of passage' to go through yet - i.e. a few hundred if not thousand hours of practice, practice, practice, before I can do what I want with any consistency - if at all. But playing and writing is such an endlessly fascinating and intriguing business that the frustrations don't seem to be that big a deal, and always give rise to a lot of laughter. :note1: :note1:
Suggestions:
#1
Her ( I ) husband Mick was a ( IV ) wonderful guy
But ( ii ) maybe just a little ( vi ) too nice..

Maybe change "wonderful guy" to describing his as dull
Her ( I ) husband Mick was (dud of a stud/dud of a guy)
the goody goody nice guy type

or "tasteless" in food terms

Her husband Mick was a blanched lover
the white bread boy without the butter

or something like "sleeping with Mick was like eating your veggies...oooh how I crave some dessert!" Thanks for the suggestions James. :) Interesting that you picked up on that, because I did wonder how that would work. Because I was basically writing about two real people, there's a clear trap in describing what you know rather than what would best serve the structure of a story that was entirely created. So good points, if I get any more time before Sunday I'll see what I can do with that one.
#2
She ( IV ) never stopped ( I ) loving her main ( IV ) main course ( I ) man
Change the "never stopped loving.." to something like "It's not that she didn't love her main course man...." I get what you're saying, and it could be a bit better your way, but I ended up paring all the lines back to as few words as I could (I tend to start with longer lines and more words). I do this because they seem to be easier and clearer to sing, and also allow more flexibility with expression. i.e you have a few spare beats up your sleeve to linger and add emphasis where you want to.
But she ( IV ) liked a bit of ( V7 ) beef on the ( I ) side
The is a clear connotation to use "beef", but beef isn't consider an ingredient in a side dish (...but that might cultural variation where beef IS part of a common side dish)

But she liked (a bit more spice on the side/a few more condiments on top) I was really just aiming for the connotation of liking a bit of male 'beefcake' on the side. Australian cuisine is actually huge on using beef as a side dish (OK, not really... but I'm working on it.. )
#3
I'd like to see some more "food" connotations in the details to play up "the Chef" aspect.
and add in something like...
she always kept a few condiments in her purse
'cause you never know when you might have the urge (for a quick bite to eat/for a quickie)

Here too seems a bit too straight forward...maybe some equivalent food items would do ...thighs works though
See a ( IV ) tight pair of ( I ) buttocks, ( IV )or biceps or ( I ) thighs

And she'd ( IV ) wanna jump ( V7 ) on for the ( I ) ride

"jump on for a ride"... again stick with food associated words or phrases "Jump on for the ride" was used deliberately, because in the full version there was a thumping beat happening right after the line that was ...umm... how to put this... echoing the rhythmical creaking of bedsprings..

But I'll certainly look through and see if I could squeeze in any more food references. I wanted to stay fairly light on the food, and have it as a relatively minor aspect just to add a bit of colour, rather than make it a major element, but perhaps it could use a bit more seasoning yet. :wink:
#4
And he ain't gunna take it as a joke
This line seems a bit "out of context" or a bit forced....maybe... something like...
"this ain't no joke" or again food aspects of caught with a hand in the cookie jar....finger in the pie....half baked plan...etc... That's interesting to hear, because that was the line that I originally liked, and actually wrote up to, rather than stuck in as a supporting rhyme. However, I believe that throwing out lines that you are fond of, but which eventually prove to be not an ideal fit, is a big part of proper song editing. So I'll run the highlighter across that one and see how it feels in a day or two, when the song has cooled off and my perspective is more objective. To me, it sounds like a very Australian way of putting it, but I may feel less enthusiastic about it when I look through next time. Always good to hear what people's first reactions are, because that's what counts with a song, not what you think you could talk them into later... :mrgreen:

Thanks to you both for the reactions and ideas. It will be interesting to see what the guy I'm having some lessons from thinks - I guessing that he'll be OK with most of the lyrics but will transform the music. I'll also have a bob or two on him suggesting adding some banjo... 8)

Cheers,

Chris]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316646 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316638 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:09:38 +0000
I guess that's my cue! :mrgreen:

Good job, Chris. ....sorry to hear about the recording issues :( ...it's probably a rite of passage process for home recorders...like calluses for guitarists.... :wink:

Nice twist at the end.

Suggestions:
#1
Her ( I ) husband Mick was a ( IV ) wonderful guy
But ( ii ) maybe just a little ( vi ) too nice..

Maybe change "wonderful guy" to describing his as dull
Her ( I ) husband Mick was (dud of a stud/dud of a guy)
the goody goody nice guy type

or "tasteless" in food terms

Her husband Mick was a blanched lover
the white bread boy without the butter

or something like "sleeping with Mick was like eating your veggies...oooh how I crave some dessert!"

#2
She ( IV ) never stopped ( I ) loving her main ( IV ) main course ( I ) man
Change the "never stopped loving.." to something like "It's not that she didn't love her main course man...."

But she ( IV ) liked a bit of ( V7 ) beef on the ( I ) side
The is a clear connotation to use "beef", but beef isn't consider an ingredient in a side dish (...but that might cultural variation where beef IS part of a common side dish)

But she liked (a bit more spice on the side/a few more condiments on top)

#3
I'd like to see some more "food" connotations in the details to play up "the Chef" aspect.
and add in something like...
she always kept a few condiments in her purse
'cause you never know when you might have the urge (for a quick bite to eat/for a quickie)

Here too seems a bit too straight forward...maybe some equivalent food items would do ...thighs works though
See a ( IV ) tight pair of ( I ) buttocks, ( IV )or biceps or ( I ) thighs

And she'd ( IV ) wanna jump ( V7 ) on for the ( I ) ride

"jump on for a ride"... again stick with food associated words or phrases

#4
And he ain't gunna take it as a joke
This line seems a bit "out of context" or a bit forced....maybe... something like...
"this ain't no joke" or again food aspects of caught with a hand in the cookie jar....finger in the pie....half baked plan...etc...

P.S. The names have been changed to protect the guilty, but an old friend assured me that she actually did this one day. :shock:

Too bad for your friend. :( I am sure we've all done something to have our names changed in a song or two :?]]> Sunday Songwriters Group jamestoffee https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316638 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316635 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:56:42 +0000
Add a bit of tinsle and change goose to turkey and you'd have a Christmas hit!!! :lol:

If Mick's home early he'll pluck my duck (or - ‘my goose is cooked'.??) - :D :D :D

As usual, no comments on the lyrics - it's just good fun!

Oh yes, and congratulations for getting 'blue-arsed' through the virtual mediators - it'll only be a matter of time. :roll:

Rock on!

D 8)

ps - Welcome to Week 7 - it was getting a little lonely, wasn't it James]]> Sunday Songwriters Group DylanBarrett https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316635 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316632 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:40:50 +0000
The usual chord suspects - I, vi, IV and V - with a ii added in later, and a shift for the chorus. It was written in G but I ended up sticking a capo on and singing it in A.

Suzy The Chef


SUZY THE CHEF

( I ) Lying in bed with a ( vi ) man in her arms

( IV ) Dreaming of passion and ( V ) sweat

She ( I ) couldn't get enough of that ( vi ) secret love

And she ( IV ) hadn't been ( V7 ) caught out ( I ) yet...

Her ( I ) husband Mick was a ( IV ) wonderful guy
But ( ii ) maybe just a little ( vi ) too nice..
Cos ( ii ) Suzy was a chef with an ( IV ) eye for a dish
And she ( I ) did like ( V7 ) plenty of ( I ) spice

Chorus

She ( IV ) never stopped ( I ) loving her main ( IV ) main course ( I ) man

But she ( IV ) liked a bit of ( V7 ) beef on the ( I ) side

See a ( IV ) tight pair of ( I ) buttocks, ( IV )or biceps or ( I ) thighs

And she'd ( IV ) wanna jump ( V7 ) on for the ( I ) ride

Having her cake and eating it too
Was Suzy's favourite scam
As she stretched and opened one lazy eye
She heard a car door slam....

She snapped awake in a blink of an eye
Her dreams went up in smoke
If Mick's home early he'll pluck my duck (or - ‘my goose is cooked'.??)
And he ain't gunna take it as a joke

Chorus

The panic in her mind put strength in her arms
And she shoved her sleeping stud
“It's Mick!” she hissed as she pushed him out of bed
And he rolled to the floor with a thud

Now he woke too and blinked and stared
Don't know who was more surprised
It wasn't her lover in the bed but Mick
She was looking in her husband's eyes...

Chorus

The moral of this story is plain to see
Don't cheat on the one you've wed
But if you should fall, and fail your vows
Make sure you know who's in your bed....

© Chris C 2008

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. The names have been changed to protect the guilty, but an old friend assured me that she actually did this one day. :shock:]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-316632 https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-34410 Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:37:03 +0000
CAUTION:

Song contains themes of marital infidelity, and general naughtiness.


From memory, ‘The Man from Porlock' interrupts a dreamy reverie by knocking on the poet Coleridge's door, but in this case it's a car door slamming. The consequences are a little bit different too.

Trying to record this has been driving me nuts !

School broke up for the holidays this week, so I've been rushing around like a blue-arsed fly trying to get everything done while I still had the odd free moment during school hours. Naturally enough, trying to rush it meant that it got steadily worse instead of better...

I've recently been trying hard to learn to play accurately on the beat against a drum track, and then sing on a different track on a separate take. I'm still lousy at it... and ditto for getting the hang of pacing the words against the rhythm and flow of the music, and also bringing the lyrics to life with a bit of vocal interest. And it's also one thing to have a vague idea of what you're trying to achieve, and quite another to actually achieve it with my primitive level of ability. So one take I'd get the voice doing the right thing in some spots but not others. So I'd fix that, and stuff it up somewhere else, or get the rhythm all wrong or even sing the wrong darned words.

Naturally, I remain calm and professional when I do make a mistake, and just keep on as if nothing had happened. So see if you can spot the point on this track where I made a small error. It's subtle, but the experienced players here might be able to pick that in one section, instead of singing the right words I was saying something rather like “bother, bother, oh gosh, I think I may have muddled up the lyrics just a little there...” :wink:



Anyway, there's a pretty awful take below. I stuff up the melody line in a few spots, to say nothing of all the other aspects, but it gives the general idea. I was competing with a very noisy air conditioner which has added some obvious hum (it's egg frying temperature here upstairs right now...) and an equally noisy schoolboy on holiday. I abandoned trying to do a proper 'plugged in' take and just yelled it at the ‘quick-n-dirty' one track set-up.


Cheers,

Chris]]> Sunday Songwriters Group Chris C https://guitarnoise.forum/sunday-songwriters-group/ssg7-wk-7-suzy-the-chef/#post-34410