another question

Yeah, there is.

C:

C - C E G
Dm - D F A
Em - E G B
F - F A C
G - G B D
Am - A C E
Bm-5 - B D F

Notice how each note (the root, third and fifth) is one note higher than the chord below it (tonally, not the order on the chart)?

You can even apply this to sevenths by throwing it on the end of the C chord and moving up the scale for the others.

C:

Cmaj7 - C E G B
Dm7 - D F A C
Em7 - E G B D
Fmaj7 - F A C E
G7 - G B D F
Am7 - A C E G
Bm7-5 - B D F A

Notice how as the root ascends up the scale, so does the other notes?

Oh, and roman numerals are generally only used for chord names. When we refer to the notes within a chord we'd use 1, 3, 5, 7 etc...

ok... thats not exactly what i'm looking for Argus

I want to know if there is a pattern in the way that a C turns into a Cm, a Cm turns into Caug, into a C etc. etc.

Oh.

Well lets look at the C major chord.

It's constructed with the root, the major third, and the perfect fifth, in other words 1 3 5.

C minor is the same, but with a flattened third, so it's 1 b3 5.

C augmented is a major triad with a sharpened fifth, so it's 1 3 #5.

If you were playing in the key of C, F or G, you'd normally only use C major (C major is the IV of G and the V of F).

Hi, chris,

To a large extent, you've answered your own question - so long as you know the notes of the scale in the key you are using then chord construction becomes very easy - it's simply every alternate note

So:

C Major - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

Chords using the notes:

C, E, G = C Major - a Major 3rd from C to E
D, F, A = D minor - a minor 3rd from D to F

and so one.

Then, in C minor - C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C

C, Eb, G = Cm - a minor 3rd from C to Eb
D, F, Ab = D dim - two stacked minor thirds BTW

and so on. The important thing to remember though, is that Cminor is not a C Major chord using a flattened third, but a standard chord in the key of C minor using the standard root, third and fifth formula.

And initially, that's as hard as it gets.

7ths -

C, E, G and B = Cmaj7 - in C Major
C, Eb, G and Bb = Cm7 - in C minor

for example add different flavours and emotions to the basic chord and it's up to you how and when you use them.

Likewise Augmented chords - two stacked Major thirds - C, E and G#= Caug - in C Major for example. Use them carefully - Caug works better in A minor than in C Major because the G# becomes the leading note and it makes an alternative sound at the cadence.

There's probably no way of making the question a no-brainer. Everybody has their own way of remembering it.

Best,

A :-)

Hey alan..... you got my brain sputtering but not turning over.... dumb you last post down and repost it please

remember i am just learning theory

Chris,

Do you understand why the chords in a major key follow the sequence Maj, min, min, Maj, Maj, min, Dim?

As in C- CMaj, Dmin, Emin, FMaj, GMaj, Amin, BDim

i'm not talking about chord progressions....my question is this....is there a pattern in the chord formaton formula as far as how the notes in the chord change...

i'm not talking about all the chords in a certain key...

i'm talking about all the chords for a particular Root note

Yes, Chris, there is a pattern:

In any major scale, the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes form a major chord (in C, that's C-E-G).

Take any major chord and lower the fifth, and you get a minor chord (C-Eb-G...1-b3-5)

Take any minor chord and lower the fifth, and you get a diminished chord (C-Eb-Gb...1-b3-b5)

Take any major chord and raise the fifth, and you get an augmented chord (C-E-G#...1-3-#5)

Back to the major scale; using the seventh note on a major chord (1-3-5-7) you get a major seventh

Lower the seventh, you get a dominant chord (1-3-5-b7)

Lower the third and seventh, and you get a minor seventh (1-b3-5-b7)

Lower the third ONLY, and you get a minor/major seventh (1-b3-5-7)

Take a minor seventh and lower the fifth, and you get a half-diminished chord (1-b3-b5-b7), sometimes called a m7b5 chord

Take that chord and lower the seventh a second time, and you get a diminished 7th (1-b3-b5-bb7)

Essentially, all chords are variations of all other chords in a predicatable pattern.

I hope this helped.

Tom

Yes, Chris, there is a pattern:

In any major scale, the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes form a major chord (in C, that's C-E-G).

Take any major chord and lower the fifth, and you get a minor chord (C-Eb-G...1-b3-5)

Take any minor chord and lower the fifth, and you get a diminished chord (C-Eb-Gb...1-b3-b5)

Take any major chord and raise the fifth, and you get an augmented chord (C-E-G#...1-3-#5)

Back to the major scale; using the seventh note on a major chord (1-3-5-7) you get a major seventh

Lower the seventh, you get a dominant chord (1-3-5-b7)

Lower the third and seventh, and you get a minor seventh (1-b3-5-b7)

Lower the third ONLY, and you get a minor/major seventh (1-b3-5-7)

Take a minor seventh and lower the fifth, and you get a half-diminished chord (1-b3-b5-b7), sometimes called a m7b5 chord

Take that chord and lower the seventh a second time, and you get a diminished 7th (1-b3-b5-bb7)

Essentially, all chords are variations of all other chords in a predicatable pattern.

I hope this helped.

Tom

You meant take a major chord and lower the 3rd and you get a minor chord, right?

Yep... sorry for the typo.

Here's the basic chords (through sevenths) -- all come from the major scale of the root note:

Major = 1-3-5
Minor = 1-b3-5
Diminished = 1-b3-b5
Augmented =1-3-#5
Major 7th = 1-3-5-7
Minor 7th = 1-b3-5-b7
Dominant 7th = 1-3-5-b7
Minor/Major 7th =1-b3-5-7
Half diminished 7th (m7b5) = 1-b3-b5-b7
Diminished 7th = 1-b3-b5-bb7
Augmented 7th = 1-3-5-7

All chords come from the major scale of the root note, which confuses some people... for example, in C major, the major chords are C, F, and G... but you can't use the C major scale in figuring the chord extensions -- you have to use the chord root.

If you didn't, you'd get a different Gmaj7 chord (or any other extended G chord) in the key of C than you would in the key of G!

In G: G-A--B-C-D-E-F#-G

using the C scale notes:

G-A-B-C-D-E-F-G

In the second chord (a G dominant 7th), you won't properly identify the chord formula unless you start with a G scale.

Sorry for the confusion with my fat fingers :)

Tom

Ah, but you wouldn't get a Gmaj7 chord in the key of C because the major 7th - the F# doesn't feature in the key of C. F natural is part of C.

So, in the key of C - a 7th extension of G would be G, B, D and F - a standard G7 - the dominant chord  in C Major.

And in the key of G it would be G, B, D and F# - one semitone down from the G root note - giving you Gmaj7.

I'm not sure this was part of the original question but I think it's important to keep it in the conversation so that other readers remember to keep with the key signature.

Best,

A :-)

i'm not talking about chord progressions....my question is this....is there a pattern in the chord formaton formula as far as how the notes in the chord change...

i'm not talking about all the chords in a certain key...

i'm talking about all the chords for a particular Root note

I'm not sure I understand your question correctly, but anyway, here goes:

forget about it...i will repost my question tonight when i get my head straight and figure out exactly what the hell i am trying to ask ;D