Improvisation

And I just put this post in the wrong freaking forum.

It takes a lot of practice to develop improvisation skills... the process is called 'paying your dues' :)  Here's a few things you can try:

1) Try taking just four bars of a tune.  Play a single note at the beginning of bars 2, 3, and 4.  Fool around with these notes until you're satisfied they sound good.  Next start playing something in bar 1... a scale fragment, an arpeggio, whatever... with the idea of ENDING on the note you know will go with the first beat in bar 2.  Repeat that, using the targets for bars 3 and 4.  Try playing just fragments (in other words, rest at the first beat of each bar), then try tying everything together into one 4-bar melodic line.  Once you have the hang of four bar lines, try 8 bars, then a full chorus.

2) Try playing a single note through an entire progression.  Alter only the rhythm.  Years ago I had an improvisation coach (a bassist) who gave me this exercise... it's amazing what you can do rhythmically.

3) Try playing over a full progression with a fixed rhythm.  If you choose eighth notes, play eight notes per measure, no matter what.  You can repeat notes, but you must play every eighth note.

4) Find a simple riff you like, just 3 or 4 notes long, and a progression that works with it.  Alter the riff -- slide into it (or out of it), bend one or more notes, use hammer ons or pull offs, add a note as a double stop, etc.

5) Take a few measures and SING a solo over it.  Now take your guitar and duplicate what you sang.  Start with short phrases, and work your way up.

In the end, improvising is about getting your head, ears, and fingers to work together.  It takes time, but it comes with practice.

Tom

1) Try taking just four bars of a tune.  Play a single note at the beginning of bars 2, 3, and 4.  Fool around with these notes until you're satisfied they sound good.  Next start playing something in bar 1... a scale fragment, an arpeggio, whatever... with the idea of ENDING on the note you know will go with the first beat in bar 2.  Repeat that, using the targets for bars 3 and 4.  Try playing just fragments (in other words, rest at the first beat of each bar), then try tying everything together into one 4-bar melodic line.  Once you have the hang of four bar lines, try 8 bars, then a full chorus.

I've never thought of doing it this way. Thanks!

The way I normally do things is kind of similar - I just play whatever comes into my head, then start the next bar on the closest chord tone to whatever I was just on.

For instance, over C-F I'd play something in C (or C mixolydian). If it was getting close to the change, I'd try and aim for an F, A or C, whichever one's closest to the last note, then I'd just keep playing in C (or one of the modes of F i.e. F lydian if the next chord is a C, F mixolydian if it's a Bb, and so forth).

I thought I'd just contribute for whoever comes along and reads the thread.

but it all comes out sounding like crap.

it seems to me you're just to darn stupid to be improvising dude......

Nah ... Just Kidding :P

Great tips there Noteboat

peace
manti

For instance, over C-F I'd play something in C (or C mixolydian). If it was getting close to the change, I'd try and aim for an F, A or C, whichever one's closest to the last note, then I'd just keep playing in C (or one of the modes of F i.e. F lydian if the next chord is a C, F mixolydian if it's a Bb, and so forth).

You find this approach used in jazz pretty frequently.  I'd consider it an advanced approach... if you're having trouble improvising using a single scale over a progression, it's going to create the mental equivalent of a logjam to start thinking about other scales and upcoming chords.

The use of different modes over changes can be a logical next step in your development as an improvisor.

Going beyond that... every chord (except a 6/9) has a triad for the top three notes -- for example, G7 (G-B-D-E) has a B diminished triad on top.  You could use a B diminished scale there, and the sounds you get will be one step further removed, giving you new material for your ears.

In the end, there's no limit.  Like Thelonius Monk said, "if a note ain't right when I start with it, it's right when I'm done with it".

I think my main problem lies somewhere in using my ear. I can play every scale/mode (more or less) up and down the fretboard, but when I improvise over a cd or radio, it comes out sounding nothing like improvisation. It just sounds like some idiot noodling in key.

The same thing happens when I use modes - it just sounds like a bunch of dead sounds strung together.

I don't personally know anyone in my city, let alone anyone who plays guitar, so it might be good. I honestly don't know. The main thing is that I'm not happy with it.

Now that triad idea (Bm-5 out of G7) sounds good. I knew about different triads in chords, but it never occured to me to use them like that.

You should record yourself improvising, then listen to it a week or so later when you can be more impartial.

That Monk quote is actually very good advice.  If a note clashes, don't get off it as soon as possible.  Think about whether you can stay there a while.  Maybe hit it a few more times.  Make it sound planned.

Or if it clashes, bend it :)

It happens to me a lot... sometimes I'm impro-ing on some backing track and I hit a clashing note... I bend it half a step and it usually gets itself right since most of my mistakes are sharped/flattened notes [got to go learn some more scales :P]

So it'll now sound good and more wow-ish :P

peace
manti

I think my main problem lies somewhere in using my ear. I can play every scale/mode (more or less) up and down the fretboard, but when I improvise over a cd or radio, it comes out sounding nothing like improvisation. It just sounds like some idiot noodling in key.

The same thing happens when I use modes - it just sounds like a bunch of dead sounds strung together.

This is an extremely common complaint.  

I'm not much of an improviser, I write all parts, but here's some advice I've seen very often in slightly varying forms from very, very skilled improvisers (far more skilled than me):

Practice translating from melodies in your head to melodies in your fingers.

Start with easy stuff.  Nursery rhymes, christmas jingles, AC/DC riffs.

Then learn to think of melodic sequences and then play them.

If you must go from theory construct to melody, start with arpeggios (chords), not scales.  

Don't learn 'more scales'.  Now that's a waste of time.

Don't learn 'more scales'.  Now that's a waste of time.

This gets my vote - improvisation is all in the phrasing.

A :-)

If you must go from theory construct to melody, start with arpeggios (chords), not scales.  

Generally I do. If I was playing over a maj7 chord, I'd use some of the chord tones, and depending on what sound I was after I might use either a 4 or #4 (or both) as a passing tone somewhere.

Maybe I just need some time off. Honestly, playing guitar is basically all I do, apart from eat, sleep, and post on this board.