Motion

The top voices are in parallel motion (each moving down a fifth), the bottom voices are in contrary motion.

so its just split up.. there is not a name for when they are combined and moving in different motions..

and the top is moving down a parallel 5th.. (which is usually avoided)

but its ok.. because its in a Imperfect cadence..

or is parallel 5th's only allowed in Perfect cadences?? (according to Piston)

There's only the four types of motion (parallel, similar, contrary & oblique). When you look at multiple voices, you look at each pair.

In strict counterpoint, parallel fifths are avoided, as Piston mentions. Composers don't write according to rules, though, and this guideline is violated pretty often. When you get to Piston's chapter on Harmonic Analysis, he'll show you plenty of examples of parallel fifths in Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Berlioz, etc.... and there are still more in his chapter on Extensions.

The reason parallel fifths are avoided is that they tend to get boring - it's a rather bland movement. Use them if they fit what you want, but don't use a bunch of them in a row.

Ok, ill take it as a 'consideration'

i think they are very effective in Perfect cadences (and he mentioned this was one of the few exceptions that it was commonly used)

its nice to be different and try new ideas (even though all the combinations left have probably been used)

but, well..

i just though 4 voice part's were classed as all 4, not 2 pairs..

can you still have 4 voices in a full Symphony orchestra..

i mean 4 different parts..

like

Brass have 1 note, woodwind have 1,

violins have 1..

and like viola, cello and double bass have the other..

does that still count as 4 part writing?

I'm running for the door on this one. It's only 7:30pm here on a Saturday night but I may have to crack open a Corona to have the courage to reread this post. On second thought, I'll come back in a few days and try it again… :oops:

Most symphonic pieces are written in four-part harmony, Alex, but not quite the way you're envisioning.

A symphonic orchestra contains a heck of a lot of potential voices; using more than four melody lines could make things sound very muddy very fast. On the other hand, you've got a lot of sonic textures to play with, and you can double those four voices at will in different registers.

Quick example: measure 2 of Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique has an orchestral Cm chord. From high voices to low, he splits it up as follows:

G - Piccolo
G – Flute 1, horn 1
Eb – Flute 2, oboe 1, horn 2
C – clarinet 1, horn 3
G – oboe 2, clarinet 2
C – horn 4
C – bassoon

So… it's not a matter of one family having one voice – that wouldn't give you a full symphonic sound. Better to have each family take 2-3 voices… and how to chose which instruments play which notes is the beauty of orchestral arranging 

Oh, and if you try to pick up the voices in the example from a score, be sure to remember the clarinets and horns 1 & 2 need to be transposed.

yeah, i only really ever use Clarinet's in Bb...

then i just give them the tenor cleff and read it is treble, lot easier..

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So the basic jist of my idea for a symphonic 4 part piece, is right, but its better to not give each group a different note, but to mix them around..

and thats ok then?

then i suppose you can move to other notes and there will be a lot of motions, ooh

interesting to play with / master.

ok, im liking the looks of this. I would like to understand it a little better, though...

what causes each motion to be classified as that type of motion (like, the whatchamacallit motion is the movement of the thingamabob to the ...other thingamabob (im running out of stupid words to use :? )

When you've got two different melodies...

Parallel motion = both move in the same direction by the same amount
Similar motion = both move in the same direction by different amounts
Contrary motion = both move in different directions
Oblique motion = one stays the same, the other moves

With four voices, we just seperate them into pairs of two voices, right?

Not necessarily, you can have any combination of 4 parts and they can switch back and forth.

The reason parallel fifths are avoided is that they tend to get boring - it's a rather bland movement. Use them if they fit what you want, but don't use a bunch of them in a row.

that's like playing a bunch of powerchords (root 5 powerchords) then right? so i think i understand this now. thank you.

Yeah, power chords would be a blunt example.