Question

All right!   8)

hmm.lol..if anyone else is reading this, has no clue what anyone is saying, but finds it amazing anyways, let me know. because id like to not be the only one!

I'll just post something to sum it up incase someone comes in and skips the first couple of pages.

This is all about forming chords and how they are done.

To figure out a minor chord you do the following:

- Take the root of the chord you want ( A in A minor7 chord) and examine the root notes major scale (Examine the A Major scale).

The A Major scale has the following notes:

A B C# D E F# G#

- Now the formula for a minor 7th chord is the following:

1 b3 5 b7

- Now you apply this to the A major scale and you get:

A C E G

This is your A minor7 chord! Just like that. Doesn't matter when or what key or scale your song is based in, this is always the notes in an A minor7 chord. :D

Now if your only vaguely getting that don't read this next bit as it is really irrelevant, just something to note on the side.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm trying to cash in on other people's work, I just felt it needed to be explained again for other who may read it.

Jazzarati

The reason that it might be said to be used in a song that is in C Major or in maybe A Aeolian is because the notes in these scales is C D E F G A B... The notes in the chord match those in the scale. This is what makes the chords sound 'in key'

Yep, Jazz has the right idea... after i read something i became so confused about wether, in a key, the chords were built around that scale

(kinda like modes)..

but now i have this understood.. i would like to know how modal extensions work.. because modal extensions do revolve around the Ionian scale... but as i discovered.. the chords dont.

And i have read a lot of chapters on Modal extensions to chords, and wonder if someone can explain this.

Also if i do find it i will try to explain it here as best as i can.

Sorry for blundering in here, but to me you all seams a bit to fixed on scales (no offence). So eaven if I think you already have come to the right conclusion, Alex, I think you took a big turnaround, and could have come there a lot easier (though maybe not as interesting).

As I see it the formula of a chord is a fixed number of half steps (HS) (or frets) between the notes. This can also be seen as the shapes Muse are into. For instance a major chord is root, 4HS and 7HS. This is always the same.

Then depending on what scale your in, some chords will fit nicely, but some will not. If you still want those chords in your sheet, you will have to sharpen or flatten some notes, but they still are out of key.

Pretty much of this I have figured out from Daves tutorials, so if I am wrong, blame it on the teacher :-) No, seriously, have I missunderstod something, or maybe everything, please tell me so.

/zc

It was just a bit of straightening.

Modes are scales played at a starting point other than the tonic.

So E Phrygian is a C Major scale started and finished on the E.

Chords are formula based and created from scales.

The tonic is the first note in the scale.  In the case of C the first note is C.  In the case of E phrygian, which starts on an E, the tonic note is.....

C.

That's where the confusion was.

no no no, the confusion was in a key, when you write chords do you construct it from the key of the tonic, or its own key (but both work, apparently).

ill read up on it as much as i can then if i have more questions i can ask them  :P

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question --
but the chord formulas are based on using the chord's scale as I understand it.

Therefore you build the varieties of C from the C scale (Ionian, starting on C)
G from G (Ionian, starting on G that is)
and so forth.

You might find this link useful:

http://www.jmdl.com/howard/music/chord.html

the question has been answered :P

you can use its own scale or the scale of the tonic, you get the same results.

i will still go to the link though :P

Maybe I don't understand the terms.

Ionian mode is equivalent to the major scale beginning on its root note, C to C, D to D, etc.

Tonic, I thought, meant the key or root note of a scale.  So if you, for example, the mixolydian mode of the C scale, the C remains the root and thus the tonic, even though you've rotated the starting point to G, right?

Or am I defining "tonic" incorrectly?
Tim

the tonic is the first note of a key...

so take C major..

C D E F G A B C..

C (I) is the tonic...

E Phyrgian, is E-E in the C major scale, the tonic of THIS SCALE is E, because thats what it starts on but the tonic of the key that it is in is, C.

and the Ionian mode always occurs on the tonic of the key/scale, they will always be the same.
Ionian mode is equivalent to the major scale beginning on its root note, C to C, D to D, etc.

Yes... if you are treating those two scales in seperate keys.

If you are saying D-D in the key of C, like as a starting point one note up from C, then that isnt an Ionian scale, this is a Dorian scale.

I dont understand what you meant, when you said C-C, D-D.. you mean this as two seperate keys, or both in C?

Alex and all,

I think we are all saying the same thing here.  Don't let resolving the issue add to the confusion.
;)
Nick

I dont understand what you meant, when you said C-C, D-D.. you mean this as two seperate keys, or both in C?

Yes, two separate keys.  Key of C, Key of D.

Then you are right, Muse, both Ionian.

So has it been decided that a chord never changes, even if you change key (e.g. Cmaj is the same in C and D), the key just affects your choice if chords?  Do I even know what the problem was?  Am I just hurting this topic?