Strats and Les Paul

Nah, they come right out and say it sounds better. At least that's how I interpret phrases like 'enhanced tone' or 'superb resonance'... From a Gibson press release in June of 2000:

The Les Paul Elegant takes the Les Paul's graceful, single cutaway design to a new level. The Elegant features a compund radius ebony fingerboard for easy fingering and playability, Abalone inlays, a highly figured maple top, and a chambered top for enhanced tone and significantly reduced weight.

From a Gibson press release January 2004:

The Les Paul Elegant also features a compound radius ebony fingerboard for easier fingering and playability, and a chambered body for improved tone and significantly reduced weight.

From the same release:

The Peter Frampton Signature Les Paul is constructed with a maple top and a mahogany back and neck. The back is chambered making for an instrument that not only possesses superb resonance and tone, but also is incredibly lightweight.

The dealers pretty much echo that....

Versatile, classic, and ultra light weight. Have ever wanted the feel and sustain of a feather light Les Paul with the vibe of a hollow body?

Many world class guitarists touring today play custom made Chambered Les Pauls on stage, both for their superior tone, and for their light weight during long concerts.

Introducing the Gibson Cloud 9 Chambered Les Paul. Strategically placed tonal chambers make these legendary Gibsons more playable, with a sound that's anything but lightweight. You actually gain midrange, sustain and tone.

By the way, I've heard that 'Cloud 9' is sort of a house brand - that three retail chains contracted for the guitars. That makes sense, since Cloud 9 isn't mentioned on Gibson's website, and there sure aren't a lot of ads (I mean, I've seen a lot of ads/reviews, but only from a few people - they're not in Guitar Center or Sam Ash or any stores near me)

Oh, and generally you'll want to have the lightest LP you can find. Not only will it be easier on your back and deltoid, but it'll probably be made of less dense and more resonant wood.

And thats a good thing.

Those' be fightin' words!

In all seriousness, the weight of the wood does make a difference, but as with all things tone related, how much of a difference is up in the air. Seriously, the most noticible thing a light weight LP does is ease the stress on your shoulders.

I figured you would have something to say about it. Yeah, the tone difference is debateable and most won't be able to tell. I'm not looking to argue, either. But the fact that it'll be easier on your back makes the debate moot. Lighter is definately better, at least in that sense. Particularly in my case, I've gotten back pain quite often just sitting. As a consequence I play my guitar a good part of the time on my back.

As far as wheight releif holes, I think I remembered reading something on the LP forum about how it only takes off less than half a pound. A weight I doubt I could really differentiate between without scales.

Either way, guitars are cool. We can all agree on that. :P

That's fun.
By the way, I've heard that 'Cloud 9' is sort of a house brand - that three retail chains contracted for the guitars.

Nope. Cloud 9's are available at any dealer who will order them, but no, you won't see them in GC or Sam Ash, not a lot of market for a 4.5k+ guitar to the average guy, which is generally why you will only see '57 Reissues and their special plaintop '60 Reissues new in there, they can squeeze them out a little bit less than 3k usually.

Owning one of each, I'll give you my personal opinion on the differences.

Les Paul - as is currently being discussed, a very heavy guitar, but with that comes some killer sustain. Pluck a string, go make a sandwich, watch some TV, then go back and still hear the note ringing. OK, maybe a bit of an exaggeration there. :) It is great though. The clean tone with no effects is very aggressive even with light strings. It just wants to make noise! I use it mostly for playing rock/alternative stuff that wants that deep, chunky, grungy sort of sound. Add in some distortion or overdrive and the thing absolutely *screams*. Of course, with amp setting changes and different effects, you can make it sound just about any way you want it to. Also sounds great playing little blues riffs with no effects and just the bridge pickup selected, kind of a sad sound.

Stratocaster - mine is a Mexican-made Standard Strat with the three single-coil pickups. It's definitely lighter that the LP! The sustain isn't as good as a Paul, partly due to less mass and partly due to losing some energy through the tremolo (whammy bar) system, but it still rings clear and true. Tones can range from distant and muddy to absolutely sparkling clean depending on which pickups you select and how you have the tone knobs set. Again, amp settings and effects will add a whole new range of sounds. I normally use this one for songs that have cleaner melodies where I really want to hear the notes ringing out.

Of course, this is all my opinion and personal preference. Either guitar is perfectly capable of doing any of the things I've said above, but each one also has its own inherent tone and playability qualities that I like very much. The LP sounds better (to me) distorted or overdriven, but the Strat sounds much cleaner (again, to me) through, say, a flanger or chorus pedal.

As always, your best bet is to play each type of guitar if possible and form your own opinions. Everyone like different things. :)

very nice comparison and contrast... sorry to get so off track with the LP specifics.

while we're talking about the whole LP weight issue. Does anyone know if the average weight of epi's LP line? elitist LP line? I'm pretty sure they're not as heavy as the 80s Gibson LP. One time I was at GC and the guy working there asked me to hold a gibson LP from the 80s, not sure what year, when he gave it to me, i almost dropped a $2k+ guitar because it was so much heavier than my strat. In compariison, it was like a feather to a boulder, I can't believe how anyone could have played that thing standing or sitting, without numbing a leg or shoulder muscle

Not only are the basic sounds different, I find the whole feel of each so much different, that I tend to play very differently on a Strat than on a LP. Many find a LP much easier to play, especially if one is considering required forces for fretting and bending and also how "fast" the neck feels. OTOH, I've heard Strats and Teles both described as guitars one has to "fight with" in order to play. I think that sort of sums it up. I find a Strat to be a much more "physical" guitar than a LP. I fight with it a little for every note and pound it a bit harder on chords. It makes my fingers hurt a little more, but that feels good. Because of this, I think a Strat ends up sounding a bit more "raw" and live. But everyone has to decide what feels and works best for his/herself. The only way is to play them -- and not just one of each, but many. It should become pretty clear after doing that. One more thing -- if you feel you like the Strat feel, but really dig a humbucking sound, try the HSS Strat.

I find a Strat to be a much more "physical" guitar than a LP. I fight with it a little for every note and pound it a bit harder on chords. It makes my fingers hurt a little more, but that feels good. Because of this, I think a Strat ends up sounding a bit more "raw" and live.

Excellent, excellent description there. I was going to try and come up with a sort of "feel" review up there in my last post, but really couldn't figure it out. You hit the hammer right on the thumb...er...or something like that. :lol:

Agreed. Since I feel like I'm naturally a fairly loose player, I think I have the opposite experience of the same events, Greg:

I find that on a Les Paul I have to be a little more precise, or I sound grossly out of control. The longer sustain and thicker sound of the notes forces me to work a little more to play more elegantly!

Funny, I have not played a strat for a long time and just started shopping for one to replace one of my LP knockoffs that I just sold.

I noticed 3 things.
1) That it was a lot lighter feeling even sitting in my lap.
2) I had to play it harder. Not harder to play just felt like hitting it harder maybe because it would not sit still so I had to punish it LoL.
3) The neck felt slower to me on every one I picked up.

Having said that I am planning to buy one and there will be nothing stopping me except maybe $$$ for the one I end up wanting. Plus I have put off buying a new amp that I was planning to get last week until I decide on a strat to go with it and my LP's

LPs feel a little faster to me, but once I'm warmed up it doesn't seem to make any difference what I play.

A couple months ago I played with a guy who's a fairly serious guitar collector. At one point we switched off, and I found his hand-made one-of-a-kind axe really nice... but no more 'playable' than the Strat I'd been playing.

He found my Strat nearly unplayable, though. Maybe he's spoiled, or maybe I'm just too darn promiscuous when it comes to guitars :)

I also have both - Highway 1 Stratocaster and LP Standard. I haven't had the LP that long, but I think Pilot and gnease really hit the differences. Weight is the obvious difference, and the LP has more sustain. But to gnease's point, I can be a little "sloppier" on the Strat. The LP is very, very sensitive and I'm finding it takes a lighter touch.

Sonically, IMO the LP is slightly warmer, through the same amp and settings. The Strat tone is definitely a little more biting.

All that said, I don't think you can go wrong either way. These are both classic guitars with classic sounds. Just depends which classic sound you want.

Steve

Heh, I'm having a tough time myself... I'm looking at a big upgrade now to an actual, primo Made-in-the-USA Fender HSS or a vintage Les Paul (in a few months... I need to get the money together first), and it is TOUGH to pick, because i'm so torn - I love that Les Paul sound, and I really dig how it responds to the distortion from my amp with the humbuckers. But i'm not so big on the weight, and I want to be able to bust out a ear-searing solo that'll just cut through everything with crazy tone, and after trying the American Deluxe, I love it for that specifically. It's so light, and it even does Metal! (to an extent) Also, to me, where I really have to "fight" with other Strats for a good sound, it feels open to me, like it's calling me, "I like you, come and bust out some blues with me! I don't bite!".

And I love the neck - it feels like it's barely there.

uhm... I think this just put me in the Strat territory. Guess we'll have to see when I scrounge a few paychecks together and trade in my Les Paul towards the next guitar!

-Brian

Agreed. Since I feel like I'm naturally a fairly loose player, I think I have the opposite experience of the same events, Greg:

I find that on a Les Paul I have to be a little more precise, or I sound grossly out of control. The longer sustain and thicker sound of the notes forces me to work a little more to play more elegantly!

Think I'd say "complementary" instead of "opposite." And I absolutely agree. I have to calm down and use a lighter touch on a 9 or 10 strung LP, or it will sound pretty bad. To compensate, I string 24.75 scale guitars (e.g., LP and most Gibson-types) with 11s -- which is also what I like on my Fenders. So the LP is still easier to the touch, but "pushes" back a little.

Also agree with Noteboat. Most people feel the LP neck is faster, but it really doesn't matter to me. Once I drop into the pocket and get the feel of a guitar, my speed is about the same on almost any decently setup guitar.