Total Newbie and Newbie Band Needs Help, BIG TIME

Hi Jonathan

Well, if you are gonna gig you need a PA. But a good PA cost big bucks. It is hard to get a decent PA for less than $1000, but it can be done.

There are basically two types of PA.

1) Powered mixer- This is a single unit that combines mixer, eq, effects, and amplifier into one convenient unit. The advantages are that powered mixers are very easy to operate, and are very easy to set up and use. They are usually cheaper than component systems.

2) Component system- This is where you buy seperate mixer, eq, effects, and amp. They have the advantage of being more flexible and usually more powerful than powered mixers. However, they are more complicated to operate (but not that difficult) and more expensive.

When buying a PA, the more power, the better. For a Rock Band you usually want an amplifier that provides at least 200 Watts per side (most amps are really two amps in one unit). Most use one side to power the Main or FOH (front of house) speakers, and the other side to power floor monitors so you can hear yourself.

There are some very good and affordable PA packages out there today. I often recommend Behringer gear. It is not the top of the line, but it is good quality gear at about the best prices around. But there are other brands as well. Alexis offers some good powered mixers for a good price.

Here are some good powered mixers.

Behringer PMH3000

This is a nice powered mixer with plenty of inputs. So you would be able to have several mics, guitars, and even mic drums. It has two 400 watt amps to power your mains and monitors, lots of effects, and dual eqs for each seperate amp. Not bad at all.

By the way, I own a LOT of Behringer gear and am very happy with everything. I have not had a single problem in 4 years with B gear. So I am not afraid to recommend Behringer to anyone.

For main speakers, about the best bang for the buck out there is the Peavey PR series speakers. These are great speakers that get great reviews for a very affordable price. I have heard these, they sound great.

Peavey PR-15 Speaker

You would be hard pressed to find any speaker of this quality for under $200. This is a great speaker.

Now, I am assuming you are on a budget. If you have real money to spend, then there is more to choose from. But this is good gear for a very reasonable price.

Go to Musicians Friend or other online music sales, click on Live Sound and look for PA Packages. You can get some pretty good deals.

By the way, here is an excellent site about PA systems. It really pays to do some study before you buy. I learned most of what I know at this site. Make sure to go through the tutorial. It will show you step by step how PA operate, terminology, everything you need to know. There are a lot of great people on the message board who will give you excellent advice.

So listen to them. :D

Here it is.

Scott's PA Tutorial

Go there and do some study, you will be glad you did.

If you only buy a small PA, you can use it as a monitor rig for bigger gigs, and then rent a big one if there isn't a house PA.

And buy used gear - it's much cheaper.

-Laz

I wouldn't buy a PA yet. You can rent them fairly cheaply when you need them as you figure out what you need.

The biggest thing I'd make sure of would be that the band had quality, SMALL amps all around.

A GOOD 30 watt amp is sufficient. It's really important that you have a good cabinet, but having a billion watts of amplification isn't needed.

No venue requires an amp and cabinet bigger than one suitable for use as a stage monitor. Really, an even smaller rig mic'ed to the PA and then pumped to stage monitors may be a better solution.

At a small gig, place your 15 to 30 watt amp can be placed behind the band in a traditional position without a mic. It's both your monitor and the amplification for the band. Get someone with good ears to help you set your amps so that the band sounds balanced from all parts of the room.

For a medium venue, go rent a small PA and mixing board. Now, your small amp should be placed in front of and facing the band as a monitor, mic it and run through the rented PA. The PA speakers are placed along the front of the stage and facing out. This arrangement allows the sound to be balanced at the mixer and allows the you to play a medium to large venue without hurting your ears.

When you make it big and start playing big halls, that same small rig can be arranged much as described above but now the band's mixer feeds the house PA. This is the only way to reach the back of the room without dangerous SPLs near the stage at a large venue and would be required no matter how powerful a rig the guitarist has.

Advantages of this method?

Well, smaller equipment takes up less space on stage, in your garage, and in your vehicles. It saves you money all around.

By not spending money on big amps and PA's up front, you can spend that money investing in things the band will need right away -- power conditioners to eliminate line noise, for example, or some time in a good recording studio with a sound engineer who really knows his stuff.

Remember that doubling volume requires multiplying the wattage by 10 when all else is equal! Since most things are never equal, get high quality low wattage amps NOW, rent the PA stuff you need, and focus on honing your sound not on your gear.

No band ever succeeded because they had the best gear in town. You build your fan base by putting on a good show and playing well. Spend your time and money on practice and putting together a kick-ass CD or two.

I can't tell you how many bands I've seen who spend a hundred times what they would have spent in a year buying a PA, monitors and huge amp stacks instead of renting it, then cut corners on their mics, pre-amps, cords, effects, and recordings . .. then they break up 'cuase they haven't made a dime, are actually in debt to guitar-center for all the gear, and could never get a recording contract 'cause their demos all sounded like crap.

Thanks for the replys guys. We have been thinking about your replys and decided that getting our own PA system and mixing desk isn't really needed at the moment because as Kingpatzer said, the gigs we will be playing will have a in house mixing desk and PA system and if we play anywhere htat doesn't have one we can just rent one for a small price.

We have decided to invest our money in getting each member of the band a decent amp, getting the drummer upgrades for his kit etc. So what sort of AMP's do you guys recommend. Because we don't know where we will be playing I was thinking 100Watt amps for myself, the rythum guitarist and the bass player. Can anyone recommend decent amps or stacks?

Also, for our singer what would we need? Could we plug his microphone into one of our amps?

Again, all help appreciated,

Jon

Amp here we go the fun thing.........ITS ALL PREFERENCE.

I personally love my Peavey Studio Pro 112 with me Tele, but when I play my Strat I plug into a Peavey Classic 30 Combo because my strat plugged into the transtube peavey just doesnt sound good.

My peavey is a 60Watt combo and believe me it can get loud. The Classic 30 is obviously a 30watt combo and it can get just as loud.

So basically the lead guitarist needs between 30 and 60. 100 watts is great but u'll probably never use it.

The Bass Player: It takes about a 100Watt Bass Cab to cover up a 60 watt guitar amp. I recommend Ampeg and only Ampeg. But of course its very pricey so a good Fender amp or even Behringerwould be good.

Rythm Player: well is he playing acoustic, or electric. If he is playing electric i recommend the same as the lead guitarist but if he playing acoustic, go for the VOX series (but again pricey). Not sure what to tell u here never had a acoustic player.... If so i'd just run him through a DI Box into my board.

As far as using an amp for vocals, i wouldn't. Its kinda expensive but I recommend buying a Mackie Powered pair of Speakers. Awesome for practice, all of it is in one little package. Or really just for practice purposes I hear Nady Audio makes a decent Powered speaker now. They are cheap prices too.

Summary:

Guitar. 60Watt and opinion. It's all about tone just play some and see what u like the most.

Bass. 100Watt at least preferably Ampeg, but then its all opinion

Rythm. VOX about 60watts. or just plug into board.

Vocals: Pair of Powered Nady Audio Speakers.

Hope this helps.

I agree with most of what kingpatzer said, but not completely.

Yeah, if you KNOW the venue you are going to be playing has a PA, then of course you don't need one.

But what about practice? You need to hear your vocals. So, you need at least a small, fairly powerful system for this.

You COULD sing through a guitar amp, but it will not sound good.

You could go with one of the Powered Mixer packages like these.

Now this is a rock bottom, budget PA.

Audio Choice 100W Powered Mixer/Speakers

Kustom 100W Powered Mixer/Speakers

Now honestly, these systems are not powerful enough for MOST Rock bands. They are very good for acoustic groups. However, even a Rock band can use a system like this if they keep the instuments down.

This would provide a PA for your singer at practices. You could also play small clubs, or parties with a small system like this.

Now, if the band plays loud, a system like this will be hopelessly lost. You will have to crank it to max. The speakers will distort, you will get feedback, it will sound terrible.

You could have one speaker pointed at the audience for your mains, and turn the other speaker back toward the band (but out in front) for a monitor. This is done by many.

A fairly cheap and more powerful component system.

Nady XA-900 Amplifier

This will provide 200 watts at 8 Ohms. Not too bad. This should get your vocals up over the instruments unless you guys play like animals.

Behringer UB1202 Mixer

Great buy. You could run up to 4 mics into this. Behringer makes good mixers.

Kustom 12" Full Range Speaker

These speakers cannot handle a lot of power, but I have heard them and they actually have pretty great sound.

So $179 + $79 + $59 + $59 = $376

Pretty good package. But you need mics. Here is a good mic for a great price.

Behringer XM5800 Microphone

Read the reviews, this is an outstanding mic. I own 3.

Figure maybe $100 for mic cables, speaker cables, speaker stands, etc....

As you see, this runs into money quick.

But you need something even for your practices.

You could sing into a guitar amp. I have done it. It works.

If you guys are serious, you will want to play anywhere you can. This means a party, or high school dance, pool party, etc......

Yeah, you could rent a system for $200 for the day (or more). What have you got for your money? Nothing.

At least with your own system you can sell it if you ever break up. And it gives your band more flexibility.

I agree with kingpatzer 100% that you need amps for your guitars. There are some good fairly powerful solid state amps today that sound good. 50 watts is plenty.

Rogue 65 Watt 1 X 12 Amp

Here ya go. This amp will crank plenty loud. And you really want at least a 12" speaker. Smaller speakers will sound like a megaphone.

I know this is all confusing to you. And I am not saying just go out and spend your money. But this is some affordable gear that will get you started.

Perhaps there is equipment you are already interested in. Try posting those and everyone will give their honest opinion.

I don't mean to disagree with kingpatzer, I just honestly feel you need at least a small PA for practices and to play small gigs you are gonna get.

Let us know if you have any questions.

For starting out, the singer doesn't need a PA per se, a good pre-amp and some powered speakers are really the best way to go, precisely because you can use it for DAW stuff as well. Anything you can get multiple uses out of is better than single-use gear.

For your guitars -- if you are getting solid-state amps, then get whatever you want in terms of amperage. If you are buying tube amps, however, don't go for more than about 30 watts. The reason is that in order to get into tube saturation to get that wonderfull crunchy sound, you'll be generating more SPL's than you'll want to stand in front of for long periods of time (SPL means "sound pressure level" and it's a measure of how much air pressure the sound wave is generating - it's what causes hearing loss after long exposure and for low frequencies high SPL's can even cause physical illnesses).

30 watt amps is MORE than enough.

For your bass guitar, you don't need more watts, but you will need bigger speakers to generate the same percieved volume. So either get a slightly higher wattage amp OR the better solution, a second cabinet for the bass amp. The second cab though is much more expensive, so most people just go a bit higher on the wattage for the bass.

Don't make the mistake of thinking more wattage= better. It just isn't true.

jonathan, dude your lucky :)

try and get whatever you can out of your school. when I was in high school we got the school to pay for recording time so we had songs to send in to several battle of the bands competitions. we got about 8 hours of studio time for free.

other than that the only other advice i have is if you are looking at in ear monitors, you know those little pens that can pick up fm radio, we gave everyon in our band one, and then hooked a cheap shortrange fm transmitter up to our board, it works fairly well, at the distance's we were dealing with there wasn't enough lag to be annoying, and it was cheaper than buying a professional in ear system. plus at the time it freed up two 1/4 inch lines on our snake, so we were able to start miking our guitar and base amps, maybe it's just me but it always seems easier to get the volume's balanced when it is being done by someone who has an impartial opinion, and lacks that little voice inside their head that tells them "well the base is kindof drowning me out maybe I should turn my volume up another 3 notches.