Tab Sites - Are they making it too easy?

I dunno about the rest of you, but I get such a kick of working a song out myself, as opposed to looking it up on a tab site - I only do that as a last resort, if there's a chord or chords I'm really stuck on.....

Discuss...............

There are still many thoughts on the subject. I tried a similar one here: https://www.guitarnoise.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27112 earlier - basically, myself I agree with you Vic, but still I believe that it is possible to live a happy life and even have fun playing guitar even if you only know tabs :shock:

LaRS

Kingpatzer

I agree with you 100% that being able to read standard notation is much better than reading tab only.

But the one thing you have heard from quite a few posters here is that tab made it easy for them to get started on guitar, and that many would have probably given up in frustration if not for tab.

So that is what is good about tab.

And I think that most players who start on tab like Rodders will eventually become interested in learning more about music and theory and seek it out.

But not everybody is interested in making a science of it. And that is not so different from many other activities. Many people simply enjoy playing a game of golf after work. My Dad did that for years. But he was not interested in becoming a pro and going on tour. He would pick up tips from other golfers and articles in magazines. That was enough to help him improve, and he was happy. And this is how many people want to play guitar. They want to be able to play their favorite songs. Some just want to play for family or around the campground fire. Some want to play in church. Others want to play local gigs. And you do not have to be an expert to enjoy guitar this way.

You don't have to go to culinary school to enjoy cooking. :D

If a person wants to get deeply involved in music and theory, they will find a way to get this information. Tab sites do not hurt a person like this. They will quickly learn how limited tab is and seek out sites that offer standard notation, purchase good books, or take lessons. So I don't see how tab sites hurt anyone. It's not like these people fail to realize that standard notation exists.

... and just to prove it to myself, I sat down and worked out a song I have been thinking about for a long time. It is by a norwegian band (delillos), and it proved to me once again that it is worth while.
The chord progression goes something like this:
Bb | gm7 |
dm | F |
cm | F |
cm | F |

Ebadd9| | Bb| |
Ebadd9| | gm| |

Ebadd9| | Bb| |
Ebadd9| | D| | Eb | gm | F

seems a bit odd a first - who would want to write a song with these chords? But working out the song really gave an impression of how he came up with it in the first place

obviously he must have been playing around with small appergios around the chords like this (i m r m 2 times each)

Bb: xxx331
gm7: xxx031
dm: xxx231
F: xxx211

Ebadd9: xxx341
Bb: xxx331
gm: xxx333

Maybe he doesn't know a sharp from a flat or an aeolian from a mixolydian - he may just have been playing 'round with his guitar, coming up with a beautiful song, and I felt for a short moment that I was peeking over his shoulder

just thought I'd share
LaRS

When I was a boy my father used to often say, "one of the hardest things to understand is that people do not always think the same way you do."

Which is why I've said that if someone chooses to use tab knowing the disadvantages of doing so, then bully for them. But if someone comes here asking about it, then I think those of us who are aware of the disadvantages have an obligation to state them clearly.

I keep saying that I have no problem with folks like rparker making a choice knowing the consequences. My issue is to try and make people think about those consequences prior to making their choices.
If you actually think about it, tab is no different to notation as they are both ways of converting music into text and both have an advantage over the other.

Honestly, I know of no advantage of tab over standard notation to someone who is can fluently read standard notation.

Yep, for someone who can read notation fluently.

Scratch that. I can think of two:

Tab tells you which position, not all standard notation is so precise.
A lot more songs are, (were) available via tab.

Honestly, I know of no advantage of tab over standard notation to someone who is can fluently read standard notation.
The hundreds of hours it took to become fluent could have been spent on learning/practicing other aspects. Tab takes approximately 3 seconds to become fluent in :)

Vic I totally agree with you in principal but unfortunately in reality I use tab or at least versions all the time. I haven't read all the responses but my goals are fairly simple, play covers..have fun.

It would be different if I were younger then I definitey would have taken the time to train my ear and to read music but at this stage it doesn't make sense to spnd the time.

I still see the actual playing of the guitar as a purely physical process and as such whether I use tab, read music or play by ear none of those things will have any impact on my ability to PLAY the guitar and that's what I want to do.

But developing the ear is important. That's for sure. My own is developing slowly but surely. And I try to use tab to reinforce my "ear training". I think that's possible and that tab can be a resource in that regard and not a stumbling block. And playing in a band has helped me train my ear too. I know I've got a long way to go in ear training, but I'm getting there. And it seems to happen better when I'm less anxious about it and tab sure helps me reduce my anxiety. Without tab, I'd be thoroughly intimidated and would have trouble progressing. (Again, I rely more on published sheet music than tab sites and find even that the published stuff is more a guide than necessarily absolutely 100% accurate).

But this summer in my Fur Peace Ranch workshop, G. E. Smith shared what he considered the most valuable bit of advice he'd ever received at the beginning of his career. He said that as a teenager he played guitar with a big band at a resort in the Poconos and that the bandleader could see him working hard but struggling sometimes playing along with the band. He said the bandleader walked by and told him "Big ears, kid. Big ears".

I like that story.

The hundreds of hours it took to become fluent could have been spent on learning/practicing other aspects. Tab takes approximately 3 seconds to become fluent in :)

I disagree. Tab has developed over the years to the extent that it now has indicators for tapping, natural and artificial harmonics, pre-bends, dive bomb etc. It's not just a "Put your fingers here and play it" method any more.

Best,

A :-)

Honestly, I know of no advantage of tab over standard notation to someone who is can fluently read standard notation.
The hundreds of hours it took to become fluent could have been spent on learning/practicing other aspects. Tab takes approximately 3 seconds to become fluent in :)

I disagree.

While it does take time to become fluent in standard notation (i make my students spend a whole 5-10 minutes on it each practice session!) you are still playing songs and learning techniques, and refining skills at the same time.

Nick is simply wrong that "a lot more songs are avaialbe in tab," far more music is available in standard notation format than is available for tabulature. Orders of magnitude more . . . that's not even a debatable issue, that's a simple fact.

I do agree that tab explicitely tells you about positional information and in standard notation you often have to deduce that information for yourself, it is frequently something implicite rather than stated.

Yes... - but - as I read Vic's initial post, this is not really a question of whether Petrucio Manchanas 31st violacello suite in Cess minor is best taught by the use of SN or tabulature. The question is whether the fact that all the tabs sites are present makes it "too easy" to play guitar. In fact the very term 'Tab' in the discussion can often be said to represent not the six horrisontal lines with numbers on, but rather lyrics with chords above (and maybe a tab for the intro).

So its more a question of ear vs. internet, than tab versus SN - IMO ( - control question: Would there be one single guitar player of all times that have sat down and learned the solo from say, hotel california using standard notation??? Think I know the answer ;) )

Lars

So its more a question of ear vs. internet, than tab versus SN - IMO ( - control question: Would there be one single guitar player of all times that have sat down and learned the solo from say, hotel california using standard notation??? Think I know the answer ;) )

Lars

Agree .. and there I agree that using one's ear is important and tabs do "make it too easy." Again, doing tab now again is fine. Doing tabs exclusively will result in a player with a very under-developed ear compared to someone who works it out themselves from time to time.

Look, I'm not rabidly anti-tab (Though I'm sure I come across that way to folks from time to time). I've used them, I've had my students use them. But I do look at using tab as something you have to choose to do judiciously if you are still trying to develop yourself as a musician.

KP,

I think you found the right word and that's "musician". I realize that my lack of sight reading etc. limits me and as such I will never consider myself a musician per se, but hopefully someday i can say that I at least am a guitar player..and I hope you see the distinction. Now you may choose to call me a hack, which would be correct, but if I could play any cover song note for note, (including solos) that's all I want to do and I don't need to have a trained ear or have to be able to read music to do that.

I really have to pick and cjoose the skills I work on since I have limited time, if I were younger I'd have a different view.

I disagree. Tab has developed over the years to the extent that it now has indicators for tapping, natural and artificial harmonics, pre-bends, dive bomb etc. It's not just a "Put your fingers here and play it" method any more.
None of which is particularly testing... 5 seconds? :)
Honestly, I know of no advantage of tab over standard notation to someone who is can fluently read standard notation.
The hundreds of hours it took to become fluent could have been spent on learning/practicing other aspects. Tab takes approximately 3 seconds to become fluent in :)

I disagree.

While it does take time to become fluent in standard notation (i make my students spend a whole 5-10 minutes on it each practice session!) you are still playing songs and learning techniques, and refining skills at the same time.

But you could use the time saved practicing in those techniques/skills anyway. If that's what you want to do, then you've lost nothing (and I still think you'd save time anyway, but that's subjective). If you want to concentrate on something else, you have the option available to you.
Nick is simply wrong that "a lot more songs are avaialbe in tab," far more music is available in standard notation format than is available for tabulature. Orders of magnitude more . . . that's not even a debatable issue, that's a simple fact.
More music maybe (never really considered it), but necessarily music relevent to any particular player, and not necessarily in a relevent medium. I have yet to see any standard notation available on the net for death metal, thrash, etc., which is what the tab sites I visit usually rate as the most popular. Rightly or wrongly, you won't ever convince anyone who is into that kind of music that standard notation is a valid option for the songs they want to learn.

Honestly, I know of no advantage of tab over standard notation to someone who is can fluently read standard notation.

Well I can think of a couple, try typing notation into powertab editor ! and the ease at which you can play an open tuned guitar by following tab without having to re-learn all note positions.

But isn't it all just a matter of preference ? Maybe if I had worked harder in my music lessons at school and had learned notation when learning was easier I probably wouldn't need tab to get me playing other peoples stuff. Then again on the other hand I haven't come across any websites that show guitar music freely in notation. (I may have inadvertently opened a can of worms with that statement)

Was not Vic's original question, whether or not we should be using tab for working out a particular song?
For me the answer is unfortunately yes, as I have not as yet managed to train my ears well enough to work these things out for myself. Having said that I have managed a few little riffs and things that I have heard and not known the name of, so maybe I'm on my way to getting their.

Maybe tab is music's answer to phonetics !!!!!!!!!!!!