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Borrowed Chords

 
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Last Post by chasumdeep 23 years ago
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 argus
(@argus)
Reputable Member
Joined: 23 years ago
Posts: 221
Topic starter 17/10/2003 6:39 pm   [#2054]

Hey,

I'm trying to write using borrowed chords, but I can't come up with anything that sounds decent. I kind of know the principle behind it, but all I can come up with is the occasional iv and V7/V (and bVI and bVII). Anything else sounds completely out of place.

Anyway.

I was wondering if anyone else was into this sort of stuff. I hear it a LOT in Talking Heads, David Byrne and Steely Dan songs. Often it's hard to pinpoint interesting changes since the songs (especially Byrne's stuff) jump from key to key.

So, any thoughts? Got a progression to share? Got a secondary dominant that leads someplace else?

The only halfway-decent progression I have right now is I - V7/V - IV - iv (A - B7 - D - Dm). I'd love to rip off your ideas hear yours.



   
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 David Hodge
(@davidhodge)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4472
17/10/2003 6:42 pm  

Why not go from there:

A  -  B7  -  D  -  Dm

to  

Am  -  D7 -  F  -  C  -  G  -  D  -  A

Just a thought of the top of my head (insert joke here).   ;)

Peace



   
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 Anonymous
(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 8184
20/10/2003 5:36 am  

Had to test, responded twice but was redirected to an error page.  Now that I'm sick of typing, an abbreviated response:

A good place to start might be using chords from that parallel major or minor key.  So, if your tune is in C major, use chords from the key of C minor.

Be sure to do this in all keys and inversions:

Ex) Cmaj7/ Abmaj7/ Dm7b5/ Em7/ Ebmaj7/ Am7/ G7(13)
Cmin/maj7

The min/maj7 is derived from the melodic or harmonic minor scales, another great harmonic field to explore.

From there, explore other keys, substitutions, and just just intuitively constructing harmonic movement- meaning eliminate the intellectual element and just play.  

                                     Peace, Mark

www.mp3.com/mark_yodice



   
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 hbriem
(@hbriem)
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Joined: 24 years ago
Posts: 646
20/10/2003 11:02 am  

The general rule about substitutions is this:

Chords that share 2 notes or more can substitute for each other.

This means for example, that:

  • Substitute a minor (1-b3-5) for a major (1-3-5) or vice versa.  E.g. E minor for E major.  ii->II and iii->III are common.

  • Substitute the chords relative minor (6-1-3) for the major (1-3-5) .  E.g. E minor for G major.

  • Add extensions to the chord.  E.g. substitute Emaj11 for E major or Cadd9 for C.

  • Suspend a note, i.e. play an Esus4 instead of E major.

  • Tritone substitution.  E.g. E7 (E-G#-B-D) contains a tritone interval (G#-D).  The same tritone (D-Ab) occurs in Bb7 (Bb-D-F-Ab) and so Bb7 can sub for E7.

  • Sub from the parallel minor, i.e. in E major, you can use G major (bIII) instead of G#m (iii) or D major (bVII) instead of D#dim.

  • Substitute a viidim for a V7.  viidim has the notes7-9-11, while the V7 is 5-7-9-11.  Thus they can sub for each other, e.g. G7 can be used instead of Bdim in C major.

  • Substitute a minor (1-3-5) for a dim (1-3-b5) or resolve to a minor or major  from its dim, much like a sus is used.

    • I can't think of any more at them moment, but I'm sure they exist.  I hope this helps.


    --
    Helgi Briem
    hbriem AT gmail DOT com


       
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     chasumdeep
    (@chasumdeep)
    Eminent Member
    Joined: 23 years ago
    Posts: 19
    21/10/2003 4:01 pm  

    :)

    I had the same question, myself.  You're tips were very helpful.



       
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     chasumdeep
    (@chasumdeep)
    Eminent Member
    Joined: 23 years ago
    Posts: 19
    21/10/2003 4:30 pm  

    :)

    Thanks, again--guys.

    I am really comfortable using chord subs now

    Thanks

    8)



       
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