Sharps and Flats

Hey Crash and Burn,

I just reread your question (and I am now editing my response just with this added note) and I think I misread it.  Well, what I say here might still help but you probably don't need the extra theory mumbo jumbo.

I am no music theory expert but the use of sharps and flats depends on the key.

C has no sharps or flats
Either a key has sharps or flats in it. For example:
D, E, A, G, B, and all sharp keys (e.g the key of Dsharp)   - have sharps, not all the notes just the none natural ones

F and all flat keys (eg the key of Dflat) - Have flat notes

Asharp and Bflat are the same scale but one occurs with sharps and the other with flats.  Think of it this way, every major scale has one of each note (A, B, C, D, E, F, G), if there weren't sharps, the key of D would look like this:
D E Gflat G A B Dflat D as opposed to
D E Fsharp G A B Csharp D

And if there weren't flats, the key of F would look like this:
F G A Asharp C D E F as opposed to
F G A Bflat C D E F

It just simplifies things that each major scale has one A,B,C, etc whether it be sharp or flat or natural.  To further understand this, study the major scale and how it is formed.  If you know how a major scale is formed, root, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step, and that there is an A in every scale whether it is natural, sharp, or flat, you can figure out if the third note in the key of A is a Csharp or a Db.  It has to be a Csharp because the sequence would go A, B, C.I think "Theory with out Tears" can help you way more than I can, I am bad at trying to explain things.  It has all about the major scale.  

Also, a minor scale is just taking a major scale and flatting the 3rd note.

The F scale above becomes:
F G Ab Bb C D E F

OK, did I already say I am bad at explaining things?  I hope you can understand this and it hasn't confused you more.

Hope I helped,
Purple

Short answer, no.  

Longer answer, the rules are:

Here are the keys, their relative minors, signatures and the notes that beling to that key.

Key        Minor     Signature      1   2   3   4   5   6   7
C  major   A  minor                 C   D   E   F   G   A   B
G  major   E  minor  #              G   A   B   C   D   E   F#
D  major   B  minor  ##             D   E   F#  G   A   B   C#
A  major   F# minor  ###            A   B   C#  D   E   F#  G#
E  major   C# minor  ####           E   F#  G#  A   B   C#  D#
B  major   G# minor  #####          B   C#  D#  E   F#  G#  A#
F# major   D# minor  ######         F#  G#  A#  B   C#  D#  E#  
F  major   D  minor  b              F   G   A   Bb  C   D   E
Bb major   G  minor  bb             Bb  C   D   Eb  F   G   A
Eb major   C  minor  bbb            Eb  F   G   Ab  Bb  C   D
Ab major   F  minor  bbbb           Ab  Bb  C   Db  Eb  F   G
Db major   Bb minor  bbbbb          Db  Eb  F   Gb  Ab  Bb  C
Gb major   Eb minor  bbbbbb         Gb  Ab  Bb  Cb  Db  Eb  F

Note, though, that you can use accidentals (notes outside the key) in any key, but of course they are a little trickier to use in a nice way.

There's a method to the maddness of key signatures, Crash.

You've got a chromatic scale, of 12 notes.  Seven of them have letter names, and the other five are ambiguous -- they can be either the sharp of the letter below, or the flat of the letter above.

You can write out music starting from ANY tone, whether it's sharped or flat... but you're going to want to be able to write down your ideas, and you want others to be able to read them.

Let's say you want to use a pattern that sounds like a major scale, but you call the notes C-D-Fb-F-G-A-Cb-C.  That will sound like a C major scale, but it has no E or B notes.

When you write out a melody that has the E or B sound, you'll need to use an accidental... and you'll need to use a natural later on, when you want an F or C note.

So the first theory rule arises: all diatonic keys (major/minor) will have one note for each letter name.  In fact, the word diatonic means two-tones, and means that any two different tones will have two different letter names.

This will eliminate the need for all the accidentals caused by the E's, B's, F's, and C's in the example above.  You can simply write out the accidentals in the key signature, and one note, say F, will ALWAYS be sharp, flat, or natural, unless you're purposely altering it.  It keeps you from cluttering up your score.

On to the use of sharps or flats... let's say you want to start with a D# note.  Following the letter name rule, you'll arrange the letters D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D, and then apply accidentals to make the proper pattern.  You'll end up with:

D#-E#-Fx-G#-A#-B#-Cx-D# (x = double sharp)

You could do the same thing enharmonically, calling the first note Eb, and you get:

Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb

As you can guess, the second method will be a lot easier to read.

What might be getting you confused is those minor keys... a composer will often move from a major key to a tonic minor - a minor key that shares the same root note.  Certain keys, like Db, are impractical to do according to strict theory rules:

Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb-C-Db (Major key)

would move to Db minor:

Db-Eb-Fb-Gb-Ab-Bbb-C-Db (tonic harmonic minor)

The alternatives are: use C#, which gives 7 sharps in the major, and four in the tonic minor... or write the tonic minor enharmonically -- which means it technically isn't Dbm, but C#m.  According to the strictest theory, this isn't a tonic minor key.

Older music will use doubled accidentals to keep with strict theory.  Modern transcriptions will simply write the tonic minor enharmonically.

Tom

This is something I will study for a bit.  I will get back to you guys!

Crash,

You should register.  You practically live here. ;)

Nick's right.

You say I should register.  Then what is the purpose of registering? ???

not having to type yor name in every time you post, you get a pic, a post count (very important lol ;)) an official welcome to the asylum by musen, and people get to know you. It's really a community here, and you visit so often, you should have a citizenship, and we can tax you that way! (Just kidding)

Ah yes!  Thinking of too many things at once made me lose my train of thought!  I was thinking of sharps and flats in this manner:  Do composers make it a general rule to use sharps with major chords and flats with minor chords?  Thanks

No, they use whatever accidentals are appropriate to the key they're in.

Thanks, that clears up alot! ;D

Hi!

Sorry if I'm saying something you already are aware of.
I guess you need to know something about harmonizing a scale.

Check this link:
https://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=34

The fact that a note has sharps or flats is merely conventional. The important thing are the intervals of the scale you are using, i.e. the pattern of whole and half-steps between the notes.

When you establish a key, the corresponding scale will provide the notes from which you are forming your chords, irrespective of their being sharp or flat or natural...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong

I already know how to harmonize triads.  Right now I am studying harmonizing triads with inversions.  

Chords is one way to look at what notes can be used, and scales is another.  Knowing what chords can exist on what degrees of the scale or scales can help your playing!

not having to type yor name in every time you post, you get a pic, a post count (very important lol ;)) an official welcome to the asylum by musen, and people get to know you. It's really a community here, and you visit so often, you should have a citizenship, and we can tax you that way! (Just kidding)

And once you're officially a fellow inmate in the Madhouse, health insurance may pick up part of the bill from your internet service provider!